Nothing, Absolutely Nothing, Can Top This for Sheer Absurdity

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Unfortunately, it's true.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>
DOE Drops the Bomb
By Chris Meehan
Citizens Against Government Waste

A government program that was initially established to help sick employees at nuclear weapon plants has turned into a classic case of waste. With the belief that many of these workers contribute to the defense of our country, Congress gave the Department of Energy (DOE) $74 million for a workers' compensation package to help the potentially thousands of employees who may have stricken with work-related illnesses.



Yet, four years after the money was allocated, the number of individuals who have received money stands at one, a man in Washington state who was granted $15,000. Meanwhile, the remaining $73,985,000 has been spent on paperwork involved in determining whether workers were sickened by radiation or toxic chemicals on the job. No, this is not a bad episode of the Simpsons; this is how our government works.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Article continued here.


Phaedrus
 

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Ah yes - and some people want to nationalize the healthcare system- you ain't seen nothing yet!
 

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Wot, you think that only the public sector can gobble up huge amounts of cash on admin bullshit??

Americas healthcare is 15% of GDP, and one third of that is on insurance company admin/other admin expenses.
Your GDP on health is amongst the highest in the world.
The private sector is very efficient....at screwing cash out of the system.
Thats why you have such a strong private health lobby in the US.
Its a fuxxing gravy train, worth 5% of GDP on admin alone.


We get a better service from 10% GDP in the UK(Nationalised system), plus everyone is covered here, and that includes admin.
 

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The problem there eek (as you are very well aware but simply love to forget so you can have a stab) is that the U.S. healthcare system is not a private market system or anything even vaguely resembling one. By attempting to be all things to all people as it often does, the U.S. government manages to produce the worst possible system of health care.

Meanwhile, the private enterprises that drive the services and technology upon which medical care depends have produced the world's undisputable top-rate medical technology, expert physicians, advanced care facilities, etc. despite having to deal with the behemoths of American Socialism Medicare and Medicaid.


Phaedrus
 

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Bollox.

Otherwise, what is this crap?
http://www.travelinsure.com/affiliate/vusahigh.htm?100121

If you get injured here (UK), they treat you, and then they say bye-bye.
No matter who you are. bye-bye, have a nice day.

The US has shit like this as pasted below.
Private sector shit.


---------------------------

Low Cost Medical Insurance for U.S. Visitors is available for as little as $110 per month for ages 50 - 59. See our rate page for more details.

Underwritten by The Insurance Company of the State of Pennsylvania, a member of the AIG group of companies, Rated A++ "Superior" by AM Best Company.

Coverage is available to international visitors who come to the U.S. for pleasure, business or study and to new immigrants to the U.S. Coverage is available for up to 12 months.

High Limit Coverage is available with Visit USA-HealthCare's™ Optional High Limit Flight and Accident insurance for for those interested in higher accidental death limits.

New! Optional Hazardous Activity Coverage is available - Medical Expense coverage for activities normally excluded from coverage such as motorcycling, scuba diving, skiing and whitewater rafting.

You can choose from two insurance plans, each offering a choice of deductibles. After you pay the deductible per coverage period and 20 percent of the first $5,000 of covered medical expenses per incident, the insurance covers 100 percent of most other health care costs (see brief outline of coverages for details).

After reviewing the plan, click the Enroll Now link to enroll online, by fax or by mail. After your application has been processed, you'll receive a confirmation of coverage by mail.

View Rates
The Importance of Visitors Medical Insurance

Every year, thousands of international visitors and immigrants to the U.S. need emergency medical treatment and are unprepared for the high costs involved. Visit USA-HealthCare™ provides illness and accident expense protection, will help you find a doctor or hospital and can pay for treatment.


Benefits Included Plan A Limit Plan B Limit
Illness and Injury Medical Expense/Incident*
* The Medical Expense Benefit Limit for ages 80+ is $10,000. $50,000 $100,000
Emergency Medical Evacuation $50,000 $100,000
Accidental Death & Dismemberment (AD&D) $50,000 $100,000
Repatriation of Remains $10,000 $20,000
Family Travel Benefit $10,000 $10,000
Incidental Travel (to Canada, Mexico, U.S. Territories, maximum 14 days) Included Included
Emergency Travelers Assistance Service Included Included
Optional Benefits
Additional AD&D
Flight Insurance
AD&D Due to Other Accidents
$250,000
$100,000
Hazardous Activity Coverage Medical Expense coverage for activities normally excluded from coverage such as motorcycling, scuba diving, skiing and whitewater rafting.

Services Provided By...

The insurance benefits in this policy are underwritten by The Insurance Company of the State of Pennsylvania, Philadelphia, PA, NAIC # 012-19429, A++ rated by A.M. Best Company and a member of the American International Group of Companies (AIG).

The policy is exclusively administered by Travel Insurance Services, Walnut Creek, CA, a provider of travel/health insurance since 1973.

Emergency assistance is provided by AIGAssist, Houston, TX.

Claims are adjusted by AIG Life Insurance Company, Wilmington, DE.

Visit USA-HealthCare™ is a registered trademark of Travel Insurance Services and is also available through certain insurance agents and brokers throughout the U.S.


--------------------------------------

BREIF OUTLINE OF COVERAGES

This is descriptive text, not a Policy. Upon receipt of your Certificate of Insurance, please read it carefully as it will describe the provisions of the Master Policy which will prevail. Your benefit limits depend upon your choice of coverage Plan A or Plan B, plus your purchase of the Optional Benefits.

Included Benefits

Illness and Injury Medical Expense / Incident
Emergency Medical Evacuation Expense
Accidental Death & Dismemberment (AD&D)
Repatriation of Remains Expenses
Family Travel Benefit
Incidental Travel (to Canada, Mexico, U.S. Territories, maximum 14 days)
Emergency Travelers Assistance Service
Optional Benefits


Additional Accidental Death & Dismemberment
Hazardous Activity Coverage
Policy Exclusion


Medical Expense A: $50,000* / B: $100,000* per incident
No Per Policy Maximum Limit

If Injury or Illness occurs during the Period of Coverage and you, your insured spouse or dependent children require medical or surgical treatment, the policy will pay, after you pay the selected deductible per period of coverage, 80 percent of all reasonable and customary charges per incident for Covered Expenses up to $5000, then 100 percent up to the maximum amount applicable to the insurance plan selected.

*The Medical Expense Benefit Limit is reduced to $10,000 for Insureds who are age 80+ on the effective date.

Covered Expenses

Charges made by a hospital for room and board, floor nursing and other services, including charges for professional services and with the exception of personal services of a non-medical nature; provided, however, that expenses do not exceed the hospital’s average charge for semiprivate room and board accommodation.
Charges made for diagnosis, treatment and surgery by a physician.
Charges made for the cost and administration of anesthetics.
Charges for medication, x-ray services, laboratory tests and services, the use of radium and radioactive isotopes, oxygen, blood transfusions, iron lungs, and medical treatment.
Charges for physiotherapy, if recommended by a physician for the treatment of a specific disablement and administered by a licensed physiotherapist.
Dressings, drugs and medicines that can only be obtained upon a written prescription of a physician or surgeon.
Illness must be contracted and manifest itself, or Injury must occur, during the Period of Coverage. The first expense must be incurred within 30 days of the commencement of covered Injury or Illness. Benefit period is 26 weeks. However, all benefits will cease when an Insured Person arrives in his home country from the United States, or from Incidental Travel (14 days maximum) to Canada, Mexico, or U.S. territories.

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Emergency Medical Evacuation Expense A: $50,000 / B: $100,000

If Injury or Illness commencing during the Period of Coverage requires emergency evacuation to either the nearest medical facility where appropriate medical treatment can be obtained, or to the Country of Residence, all expenses incurred are covered up to the maximum benefit selected. An emergency evacuation must be recommended by a legally licensed physician who certifies that the severity of Injury or Illness necessitates such emergency evacuation and agreed to by you or your representative. Arrangements must be made by AIGAssist.

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Accidental Death & Dismemberment (AD&D) A: $50,000 / B: 100,000

If an Injury occurs during your Period of Coverage and results in one of the following losses within 365 days after an accident, the Policy will pay as follows:

Benefit Plan A Limit Plan B Limit
Loss of Life $50,000 $100,000
Loss of two Members $50,000 $100,000
Loss of one Member $25,000 $50,000

Regarding this Included coverage, “Member” means hand, foot or eye. Only one amount, the largest to which you are entitled, will be paid for all losses resulting from one accident.

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Repatriation of Remains Expenses A: $10,000 / B: $20,000

If Injury or Illness commencing during the Period of Coverage results in death, all reasonable expenses incurred for preparation and return of the remains to the Country of Residence will be paid up to the maximum selected. Arrangements must be made by AIGAssist.

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Family Travel Benefit A: $10,000 / B: $10,000

When covered Emergency Medical Evacuation is necessary and the attending physician considers it beneficial for the Insured Person to have a family member join him, the Company will pay for the family member’s economy fare travel and lodging (maximum $5,000).
When covered hospitalization of the Insured Person causes accompanying minor child(ren) to be unattended, the Company will pay up to the one way economy fare (maximum $5,000) less the applied value of the child’s/children’s unused travel tickets to their country of origin.
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Emergency Travelers Assistance

VISIT USA-HEALTHCARE™ includes a special service. You are eligible to use any of these assistance services during the Period of Coverage:

24-hour verification of medical coverage for hospitals and physicians.
24-hour medical care location service.
Medical case monitoring, arranging communication between patient, family, physicians, employer, consulate or embassy.
Emergency medical transportation arrangements.
Emergency message service for medical situations.
Multilingual services.
24-hour contact for legal emergencies.
Legal referral, to help you locate a consular official or attorney.
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Optional Benefit: Additional Accidental Death & Dismemberment
Flight Only AD&D - $250,000 and AD&D - $100,000

This optional benefit may be purchased in addition to Basic Plan A or Plan B. If the optional benefit is selected and the premium paid in advance of the Period of Coverage, the policy will pay, in addition to Basic Plan limits, as follows:

Flight Only AD&D
Benefit Limit
In the event injury is sustained while riding as a fare paying passenger on a scheduled airline:
Loss of Life $250,000
Loss of two Members $250,000
Loss of one Member $125,000

AD&D
Loss of Life $100,000
In the event injury is sustained by any other cause, and not otherwise excluded from the policy: Loss of two Members $100,000
Loss of one Member $50,000


Regarding this Optional coverage, “Member” means hand, foot or eye. Only one amount, the largest to which you are entitled, will be paid for all losses resulting from one accident.

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Optional Benefit: Hazardous Activity Coverage

This optional benefit may be purchased in addition to Basic Plan A or Plan B. If the optional benefit is selected and the premium paid in advance of the Period of Coverage, Medical Expense Coverage will be provided for motorcycling, scuba diving, jet, snow and water skiing, mountain climbing, sky diving, amateur racing, piloting an aircraft, bungee jumping, spelunking, whitewater rafting, surfing or parasailing.

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Exclusions

For Medical Expense Benefit, this insurance does NOT cover:

Pre-Existing Conditions, defined as any injury or illness which was contracted or which manifested itself, or for which treatment or medication was prescribed within three years prior to the effective date of this insurance.
Services, supplies or treatment, including any period of hospital confinement, which are not recommended, approved and certified as necessary and reasonable by a physician, or expenses which are non-medical in nature.
Expenses incurred as a result of or in connection with: a) Declared or undeclared war, or any act thereof; b) Injury sustained while participating in professional athletics; c) Intentionally self-inflicted injury, suicide while sane or attempted suicide while insane; d) Motorcycling, scuba diving, jet, snow and water skiing, mountain climbing, sky diving, professional or amateur racing, piloting an aircraft, bungee jumping, spelunking, whitewater rafting, surfing or parasailing; or e) Commission of a felony.
Expenses for: a) Pregnancy, childbirth, or miscarriage; b) Routine physicals; c) Cosmetic or plastic surgery, except as the result of an accident; d) Elective surgery; e) Any mental and nervous disorders or rest cures; f) Dental care, except as the result of injury to natural teeth caused by accident; g) Eye refractions or eye examinations for the purpose of prescribing corrective lenses for eyeglasses or contact lenses or for the fitting thereof, unless caused by accidental bodily injury incurred while insured hereunder; h) Alcoholism, drug addiction, or use of any drug or narcotic agent; i) Treatment by the Insured’s Immediate Family; or j) Expenses incurred within the Insured’s home country.
Traveling expressly for the purpose of obtaining medical treatment.
All coverages, except Accidental Death and Dismemberment, shall be in excess of all other valid and collectible insurance indemnity and shall apply only when such benefits are exhausted.



For Accidental Death and Dismemberment, this insurance does NOT cover:
Any loss, fatal or non-fatal, caused by or resulting from: a) Intentionally self-inflicted injury, suicide while sane or attempted suicide while insane; b) War or any act of war, declared or undeclared, or service in the military, naval or air service of any country; c) Piloting or acting as a crew member, or riding in any aircraft except as a fare paying passenger on a scheduled airline; d) Illness, disease, pregancy, childbirth, miscarriage; e) Any bacterial infection other than one occuring from an accidental cut or wound; f) Hernia; or g) The insured being under the influence of drugs (unless taken under the advice of a physician and within the amounts prescribed by a physician) or intoxicants of any type including alcohol.

For Emergency Medical Evacuation and Repatriation of Remains Expense, this insurance does NOT cover:
Any loss fatal or non-fatal caused by or resulting from (a), (b) or (c) above.



To top of page

---------------------------------

To determine your Visit USA-HealthCare™ rate, choose Plan A or Plan B and a deductible ($250, $500, $1,000) from the chart below.

Monthly Premiums Plan A Plan B
Age Deductible Per Policy Period:
$250 $500 $1000 $250 $500 $1000
Under age 19 $48 $43 $38 $72 $65 $58
19 - 29 $50 $45 $40 $76 $68 $60
30 - 39 $70 $63 $56 $106 $95 $85
40 - 49 $97 $87 $78 $146 $132 $117
50 - 59 $137 $123 $110 $207 $186 $165
60 - 64 $160 $144 $128 $242 $217 $193
65 - 69 $210 $189 $168 $317 $285 $254
70 - 79 $350 $315 $280 N/A N/A N/A
Age 80+ * $450 $405 $360 N/A N/A N/A
* The Medical Expense Benefit Limit for ages 80+ is $10,000.



15 Day Premiums Plan A Plan B
Age Deductible Per Policy Period:
$250 $500 $1000 $250 $500 $1000
Under age 19 $27 $24 $21 $40 $36 $32
19 - 29 $28 $25 $22 $42 $38 $33
30 - 39 $39 $35 $31 $59 $53 $47
40 - 49 $54 $48 $43 $81 $73 $65
50 - 59 $76 $68 $61 $114 $103 $91
60 - 64 $88 $80 $71 $134 $120 $107
65 - 69 $116 $104 $93 $175 $157 $140
70 - 79 $193 $174 $154 N/A N/A N/A
Age 80+ * $248 $223 $198 N/A N/A N/A
* The Medical Expense Benefit Limit for ages 80+ is $10,000.



Optional Benefits Rates

Additional Accidental Death & Dismemberment Coverage
Hazardous Activity Coverage
This will increase your Basic Plan Premium as follows:

Add ONE Optional Benefit - Multiply Basic Plan Premium by 1.20
Add TWO Optional Benefits - Multiply Basic Plan Premium by 1.30



AND ANOTHER TEN LINKS OF CRAP I COULD ADD ONTO THAT!

TOTAL CRAP!

PRIVATE SECTOR CRAP!

Anyone from my country would say that you gotta be out of your tiny mind to have a system of healthcare like that.
 

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eek

When I say "the U.S. government manages to produce the worst possible system of health care" which part of that is unclear? It's pointless to try to explain to me why it is bad; I'm "down in it" so to speak. The American health care system is neither a free market system nor a socialised system such as is seen in the UK; it is a bastard attempt at a panacea and is worse than overt state control.

As I said above, technology and quality of care in the U.S. is without superior anywhere in the world -- that is why global charitable organisations such as the Shriners and the Lions' Club send patients here for life-saving critical care such as organ transplants despite the generally much higher cost.

You are also missing a key point about the U.S. healthcare system in that it is against federal law for any hospital to refuse critical treatment to a patient in need of it, regardless of that patient's ability to pay for it. Most critics of the alleged "private sector" healthcare system in the U.S. overlook this fact when bemoaning its ills -- they only criticise it at all because they mistake it for capitalism. I don't know what your issue is -- you openly acknowledge the fact that we spend more money than almost any other nation on it, yet somehow still manage to parlay this into a critique of the market, which is an almost entirely absent factor in the determination of American health policy.


Phaedrus


PS. Any actual thoughts on the topic of the thread?
 

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I can't say I am surprised at all. The US standard is to work on a budget plus system. In this way managers do anything to make sure they spend their budget so they can have it next year "plus" some extra amount. Use it or lose it mentality is rampant everywhere, not just in programs such as this.

For all our dire predictions, I am going to have to say something of a socialized medicine system will have to be required at some point. It may not be a single payer system, but might as well be. We don't need it now, but wait until all these people are on Medicare and that program becomes a vast majority of our spend on health care. It will be a quasi government takeover of the health care system. You will start seeing this soon. Both of my parents worked over 20 years with their employers and hence are guaranteed private coverage until they die. I have no such offer at my job, nor do I ever expect it. I suppose most of the country is in the same boat as time goes on and we all will likely succumb to Medicare coverage. There will be the health system then seen in much of the world, a government sponsored system and a private system for those that want to pay for better service.
 

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I think you're right on it WildBill. There will be a semi-socialisation to deal with the Medicare crunch, costs for non-covered people will skyrocket even higher than they are, and the call will go out for national health care. It's the usual case of government creating a problem, and voters turning to government to solve it. (recommended: Robert Higgs' Crisis and Leviathan, which is chock full of well-documented studies in this social phenomenon.)


Phaedrus
 

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Personally I don't think the system would be all that bad an idea. While you never want to make coverage bad, in some ways we have to make people have some incentive not to overuse the system. That is the economic-driven solution. Now for those with an HMO there is not much cost to going out to see a doctor and so it gets bogged down with less than urgent needs. For the doctors not in HMOs, there is a need to write out a lot of prescriptions and follow-up care to generate more visits and more fees.

The system is a mess and while I normally wouldn't be a fan of government run anything, in some ways this is like education where society won't really provide a good system with the right checks and balances without a government component running much of it. It just is too expensive with too much liability insurance to be able to operate under normal competitive market conditions. Private operations will never be out of the picture so it won't be like Canada and those that want to pay for even better service will always have that option, but something has to be done and the patients are going to have to take the brunt of it for the reform to go through. As it is now the costs are going up and mostly the employers and the government are seeing first-hand the havoc it is wrecking from a cost perspective. I don't want to sound like an idiot, but when I hear people complaining that they have to pay another $15 or $20 a month for their health care and they are fed up about it, I just wonder what rose colored glasses these people wear. Not to mention health care costs are killing jobs, no question about it and I don't think people in society quite realize that. When you can borrow money at historic low rates and use it to buy equipment to make an existing employee more productive, it becomes hard to justify hiring another employee when their health care costs are going up double digit percentages each year.

Just a lot of disconnects there between costs and benefits in the system and that is a part of the equation that most people refuse to acknowledge today.
 

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P. Any comments on the article eek?

what's been done is obviously daft.
As has been mentioned, if you don't spend it, the budget system penalises you.
In the 'great scheme of things' tho its pretty piddly potatoes.
What can the state buy with $75 million now?

One small building.
A couple of missiles or F-16s.

-Now if you were to give it to some African area, I bet it would make a serious difference.
 

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We could use it ($75 million currently spent on military hardware) better down here in my county to help feed and house people as well as supply basic medical neccessities not otherwise available.
 

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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Phaedrus:
Unfortunately, it's true.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>
_DOE Drops the Bomb_
By Chris Meehan
Citizens Against Government Waste

A government program that was initially established to help sick employees at nuclear weapon plants has turned into a classic case of waste. With the belief that many of these workers contribute to the defense of our country, Congress gave the Department of Energy (DOE) $74 million for a workers' compensation package to help the potentially thousands of employees who may have stricken with work-related illnesses.
Horrible.



Yet, four years after the money was allocated, the number of individuals who have received money stands at one, a man in Washington state who was granted $15,000. _Meanwhile, the remaining $73,985,000 has been spent on paperwork involved in determining whether workers were sickened by radiation or toxic chemicals on the job._ No, this is not a bad episode of the Simpsons; this is how our government works.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Article continued http://www.cagw.org/site/News2?page=NewsArticle&id=7578&AddInterest=1048.


Phaedrus<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

"Home of the free half point"
www.betrio.co.cr
 

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posted by barman:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>
We could use it ($75 million currently spent on military hardware) better down here in my county to help feed and house people as well as supply basic medical neccessities not otherwise available.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Actually, the money was for workers' compensation claims that were coincidentally related to military contracting by the Department of Energy. The US spends plenty of money on "social betterment," in fact in FY 2000 nearly half of the entire federal budget was spent on such programs, vs. a little over 15% for the military (still far too much on military, but just putting it into contaxt for you.)

And at any rate, the money didn't even go towards the purpose for which it was earmarked -- it was pissed away on bureaucratic crap, which was sort of the point of the thread.


Phaedrus
 

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