NFL Draft - Timmy Chang

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TescoVee

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courtesy of cnnsi.com


In a little more than a week, Hawaii quarterback Tim Chang will sit and wait for his name to be called like every other NFL Draft hopeful.

The outcome is out of his hands. It might surprise you, but the guy who threw for more yardage (17,072) than anyone who ever played collegiate football, and whose 117 career touchdown passes rank second in NCAA history, isn't hearing much about his many accomplishments these days. What he is hearing from scouts and talent evaluators is that his arm isn't the strongest, he's undersized and the gimmicky offense he thrived in doesn't leave him well suited to play the NFL's most demanding position.

Chang, who is attempting to become the league's first Asian-American quarterback, would seem to be the latest example of how collegiate production doesn't necessarily correspond to NFL potential in the eyes of league talent evaluators. But with the success of quarterbacks such as Tom Brady, Kurt Warner, Brad Johnson, Marc Bulger, Jake Delhomme, Rich Gannon and Trent Green -- none of whom were held in high esteem at draft time -- it's a wonder anyone could discount so much production so easily.

Don Yee, one of the most respected agents in the business whose clients include Brady, can't help but wonder why Chang's prospects aren't brighter. Yee feels that he's reliving the 2000 draft in which Brady was not selected until the sixth round, a huge mistake by NFL evaluators. "The only comments you hear are about the things he [Chang] can't do, as opposed to what he did do," Yee said. "They said Tommy [Brady] wasn't athletic enough. He ran too slow. He ran 5.2 at the Combine."

According to Yee, there may be other reasons it looks as if Chang may not be selected until very late in the draft, if at all. "In my opinion, I don't think he's being fairly evaluated, because of the system he played in, his college coach's [June Jones] reputation for running that system, the fact that he played way out there in Hawaii, and maybe to some extent the fact that he's Asian," said Yee, who is also Asian. "I think people in their evaluation process of him are coming into it with so many preconceived notions and biases already that it makes it difficult for them to see through those things and fairly evaluate him.

"I think it's like anytime there's the first time for anything, or there's a new threshold to be crossed, people are going to wonder about the validity of this person's ability,'' added Yee. "People try to explain things away a little bit."

Yee makes it clear he is not suggesting NFL personnel evaluators have practiced any overt or intentional form of discrimination in assessing Chang's prospects. But as the league's only Asian-American agent, he can draw on his experience and the well-meaning perceptions he sometimes ran up against in becoming a pioneer in his field. "I do think [Chang's] ethnicity to some degree plays a part,'' Yee said. "But there's no malice intended. It's almost a subconscious perception problem. There is kind of a perception that people have of Asians. There are still stereotypes that well-intending people still buy into. When I got into this business, it took a couple years before I was able to not have to listen to any jokes any more about being Asian. It wasn't malice. It was more ignorance.''

One Asian stereotype concerns size. A longtime NFL personnel man told me on Thursday the problem with Chang is "the kid is short.'' But when I noted that Chang was 6-1½ and 211 pounds at the Scouting Combine -- a tad shorter than St. Louis' Bulger, and taller than San Diego's Drew Brees -- the talent scout replied: "But he plays short. And he ran 5.15 [at the NFL combine]. And he's 211, but he looks frail.
It's that kind of mentality Yee finds tough to counter because he believes the perception that Chang is short has largely taken root around the NFL. "When Drew Brees was playing badly in San Diego, he played short,'' Yee said. "When he played well, they didn't care. When Doug Flutie played well for Buffalo, [the Bills] didn't care about his height. When he played badly, he was too short.''

NFL evaluators have been burned before by run-and-shoot quarterbacks -- you remember David Klingler and Andre Ware, don't you? -- and it's likely Chang's experience in that offense is the largest hurdle he has to overcome. Said one NFL evaluator: "You can't argue with his production, but people worry that he doesn't have a very strong arm and that he played in a run-and-shoot system. I think it's possible that he's being discounted somewhat because of [his race], because of the novelty factor, but if you look at the film of him, he played pretty badly in some of his bigger games.''

Said another AFC personnel official: "The criticism that Chang is getting is the same that Klingler got and the same that Ware got, that he comes from a run-and-shoot offense. What about Aaron Rodgers getting killed for the Jeff Tedford factor? Or the beating [Georgia's] David Greene is getting, the winningest quarterback in college football history?

"I've just never heard anyone remotely mention race as a factor in the criticism I've heard of Chang," he added. "I don't even know if the stereotype exists for Asian quarterbacks. But you have to realize that others may be looking at it from a perspective I know nothing about.''

Norm Chow, who is also Asian and was hired to his first NFL coaching job as Tennessee's offensive coordinator in January, ran one of college football's most successful offenses the last four years at Southern Cal. Since leaving USC, the 58-year-old Chow has spoken of the barriers he had to break through to be viewed simply as a "football guy.''

"Oh, yeah, you have to overcome a lot of perceptions,'' Chow said this week. "I overcame a lot. The unfortunate part of athletics is that once you're labeled a certain way, it's tough to break that mold. It goes on in NFL, too. I see that with the perceptions that surround both [Cal quarterback] Aaron Rodgers and [Utah QB] Alex Smith. Somebody says something about them, and then everybody starts saying it. It becomes a part of reality. I hope that's not happening with Timmy. I hope it has nothing to do with how Tim's game is evaluated. I really don't think it is.''

"With the draft, they're going to draw their conclusions first and then find reasons to support it later,'' Yee said. "If [talent evaluators] like you, they're going to find reasons why they like you. If they don't like you, and even though you still may be a good player, they're going to find reasons why they don't like you.

"It could be that Timmy gets drafted in the fifth or sixth round, becomes Marc Bulger and then a couple years from now people would say, 'We knew it all along.' But that's not what they're saying now.''

Right now, Chang's game is considered suspect and his draft status dubious. But he wouldn't be the first late-round pick to enter the league and make personnel men do some revisionist history. In the NFL, as elsewhere, closing the gap between perception and reality is a game that never really ends.
 
CHOPTALK

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Tim Chang has cost me more money than any 1 player in the history of sports.
 
stolidog

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Co-Captain has Chang in the top ten on Day 1. He probably has Hawaii's kicker, Justin Ayat, in the 1st round as well...
 
Fishhead

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choptalk said:
Tim Chang has cost me more money than any 1 player in the history of sports.

:icon_conf
 

Fezzik

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Chang and some very unusual Hawaii point spread moves

It was a topic of discussion in Las Vegas that Hawaii had some dramatic line moves associated with their games, and the moves typically won. After that, Chang was curiously benched during at least 1 game. The guy had some great games and some terrible games, and it certainly raised suspicians, to the point that at least 1 major Vegas Shop took Hawaii off its board.

Let me emphasize that all the above is based on rumors and talk only, and to my knowledge there was not any proof or even an investigation surrounding it. However, I'd be very surprised if the NFL teams were not aware of it.
 
TescoVee

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but Adrian McPherson is climbing the boards.
 
Illini

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Fezzik said:
It was a topic of discussion in Las Vegas that Hawaii had some dramatic line moves associated with their games, and the moves typically won. After that, Chang was curiously benched during at least 1 game. The guy had some great games and some terrible games, and it certainly raised suspicians, to the point that at least 1 major Vegas Shop took Hawaii off its board.

Let me emphasize that all the above is based on rumors and talk only, and to my knowledge there was not any proof or even an investigation surrounding it. However, I'd be very surprised if the NFL teams were not aware of it.

Mich St-Hawaii sure comes to mind. Every time MSU did anything, there was a flag. Some weird stuff going on out there.
 
Illini

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Can't wait for Tang's take on Timmy Chang. I'm bet he thinks he should go in the first round.
 

HiloBoy

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bobby curran is always talking about the mich st coaches complaining about holding. he said they were going nuts in the booth when he was doing play by play of the game. his take was that no holding is called in the big 10 so mich st could not get away with it here and hawaii was just a better team by far.
 
Illini

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Hilo Boy said:
bobby curran is always talking about the mich st coaches complaining about holding. he said they were going nuts in the booth when he was doing play by play of the game. his take was that no holding is called in the big 10 so mich st could not get away with it here and hawaii was just a better team by far.

I had no money on that game, and can say impartially that it was a complete travesty. MSU got screwed big time. Don't know if it was gambling related, or if the bowl commitee just wanted Hawaii in that bowl game.
 
TheGeneral+

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Speaking of, Tang wanted back to posting bad and then disappeared. Wonder where Tang is?
 
Jarbo

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Timmy Chang will be a day 3 pick. :dogtoilet
 

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cokksucker is backup in arena league at best. nfl teams wouldn't touch him with a 10 foot pole
 

Ezrin

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Fezzik said:
It was a topic of discussion in Las Vegas that Hawaii had some dramatic line moves associated with their games, and the moves typically won. After that, Chang was curiously benched during at least 1 game. The guy had some great games and some terrible games, and it certainly raised suspicians, to the point that at least 1 major Vegas Shop took Hawaii off its board.

Let me emphasize that all the above is based on rumors and talk only, and to my knowledge there was not any proof or even an investigation surrounding it. However, I'd be very surprised if the NFL teams were not aware of it.


There has been talk out here that Tim Chang is somehow related to a gambling house, either owns it or works for one. The runner who takes my bets mentioned this to me early in the season, but I believe it's just a stupid rumor or speculation based on his erratic and inconsistent play. Sometimes he would look great and cover the spread easily, or he would just look terrible and the team would get killed. I just don't think he would be so stupid to have any kind of connection to a gambling operation. Anyone else from Hawaii here this rumor?
 
primetime21+

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Tesco Vee said:
but Adrian McPherson is climbing the boards.

mcpherson is taller, bigger, faster, better athlete and has a better arm.

I watched a ton of hawaii games and was never impressed with changs arm. Against a good defense he always looked very plain. Yeah, he threw for 400 a game, but he threw it up 50 times in a game. that isnt very impressive.

personally, i think mcpherson can be a poor mans version of vick in the NFL. Aside from his obvious off the field troubles, i really dont see a downside to this kids game. if someone wants to convince me that he is somehow inferior to the top couple of QBs in the draft you willl have to try pretty hard.

Another sleeper QB is lefors. He can be a steve young type QB in the NFL. goodrunner, very bright and very accurate. Obviously his arm strength isnt good, but if he gets into the right system he can be effective.

I like aaron rodgers overall game, but he isnt a great talent and alex smith will end up more like akili smith. The teams drafting these guys early in the first are stretching it a bit. If they were going in the late 1st or early second they would be better bargains and risks. If these guys came out last year they would be completely ignored behind manning, rivers and roethlisberger.
 

bigtex

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General, I was wondering the same thing, where is Tang? For a moment i thought it was Choptalk, based on his statement.
 
TANG

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I Do Not Post Anymore But Still Read The Forum Somewhat Just Got Other Things To Do.

But Could Not Resist This. Why Would Anyone Pick This Joke Of A Qb. Timmy Chang Is A Backup Cfl Qb Eh.

In Response To Other Post Here Mic St Got Screwed Last Year.

My ? To All Is How Will Hawaii Keep It Close Against Usc In Their First Home Game? How Many Refs Will Have To Be Paid To Keep This Close.

I Only Wish The Worst To Timmy Chang Can Someone Explain How Someone Can Look Like A Physically Challenged Total Fuc Up Against Boise St And Then Beat Mic St?

I Just Hope When Espn Talks About His Record For Yards 60 Throws A Game My Guess They Give Equal Time To His Fabulous Int Record.

I Hope Somebody Knocks Him Out In His First Nfl Exhibition Game If He Gets Drafted.

Noreaga Behave The Tanger.

COUSIN OF TURK LET ME KNOW IF YOU READ THIS.
 
TheGeneral+

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Hey Tang


:howdy:
 
SportSavant

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Timmy could potentially be a great CFL quarterback... no?
 
TheGeneral+

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SportSavant said:
Timmy could potentially be a great CFL quarterback... no?

He may be ok in The Nfl. Never know.
 

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