New to horse...Looking for HelP

[ChooseORLose]

I'm trying to expand my horizons and learn more about the gambling world. Up until now I have dedicated most of my efforts to the "team sports." I'd love to learn more about the global sports and horse, and I figure the RX would be a great place to learn. I have a vague understanding of the terms but still don't know the basics regarding wagers, parlays, how to read a sheet. If there is anybody willing to put up with my questions and get me started on the right direction I'd greatly appreciate. Thanks.

 

[joelatti]

Choose ask away and if I can help I will...there are probably more experenced cappers on this site, but I consider horses my best capping sport....I'm familiar with all sheets as I rely on sheets, but also cap the form as I feel PURE sheet players don't account for class, trainer, jock, or weight IMO

Speed numbers are a great tool, but you need to do alot more as now almost every horseman uses rags or brown, hect even trainers use sheets and have for years.......It is a great game and I think one of the most enjoyable to wager on.

 

[jimmyk+]

........Choose, there are many good 'cappers here who ALL have a wealth of info and are willing to share ............have found that the posters here are a very helpful and any questions you may have will be given a thoughtful and, hopefully , helpful response ..............tough game , but like Joe said , a lot of fun , especially when you are runnin' good ...............gl and don't hesitate to ask .............gl !!!

 

[ChooseORLose]

Awesome guys, glad you are willing to help. I guess my first question would be where can I find solid information online for each race and how do I read it. I mean I'm dumb as rocks when it comes to this. Like I told Glaken in his global sports thread, I'm like a blind man in round room trying to find a corner to piss in.

I just played around at the greek and read the instructions regarding how to place a wager and am starting to get a feel for that. Now I'd like to know what is a smart bet and what is a sucker bet? How do I know what kind of trifecta to play or if I should just go straight up w/p/s? Is it stupid to pick two horses to win in one race and a third to show?

I made a fun bet tonight on race 10 at Evangeline Downs. How does this look? I'm on the right page, or am I way off? Thanks


Monday, May 02, 2005 - Evangeline - Race 10
05 Princess Loosewire
$2.00 to win
10 She Hate Me
$2.00 to show
12 Sandy's Dilly Pet
$2.00 to win
Total of 3 bet(s). Total risk: $6.00

 

[t3a]

I just played around at the greek and read the instructions regarding how to place a wager and am starting to get a feel for that. Now I'd like to know what is a smart bet and what is a sucker bet? How do I know what kind of trifecta to play or if I should just go straight up w/p/s? Is it stupid to pick two horses to win in one race and a third to show?

smart bet is any amount that won't kill you to lose but gives you a chance to win some money. Show bets are 'easier' to win - but you usually aren't going to win much, so you have to hit a higher percentage to show a profit. Plus your show price depends on what other horses are in the money, which for a beginner makes it even more difficult. My advice would be to stick with win bets, since you can tell before the race, approximately what your pay-ioff will be basically 2 times the odds + $2. Most payouts in horse racing - Win, Place and Show always - are based on $2 bets. Triples and some other exotics will show a $1 payout

If you are going to play two horses to win, you might want to weight what you play based on the odds: say you like a 7-1 and a 15-1, play $15 to win on the 7-1 shot and $7 on the 15-1

 

[t3a]

I made a fun bet tonight on race 10 at Evangeline Downs. How does this look? I'm on the right page, or am I way off? Thanks

Betting only for fun is good at Evangeline if you are new. That track is not the most honest one around. Not saying it is fixed per se but there are so many variables in a horse race you want to know a horse is well-meant (meaning they are trying to win) before you put a lot of money down. Any track where the purses are not all that big, you have to be careful if people can make more money betting on or against a horse than winning the race.. Also smaller tracks (as in smaller in diameter) are sometimes harder because the cheaper horses - i.e., ones who might be sore - may not like taking sharper turns at these smaller tracks.

Another generalization, smaller tracks will sometimes get more pronounced biases - like front runners will win or run well in every race.

If you are going to bet more than a few bucks a race trying to win YOU MUST get a racing form or something that gives you some speed figures or way to compare the horses so you can figure out who the front -runners are (those that show early speed) and those who are closers (the ones who lag back early and make a big run at the end). Also if you have some speed figures, you can toss out the ones who have no chance becuase they just run too slow. Equibase is a good site for some free info, DRF is good for the Racing Form - which has the best speed figures. The Racing Form figures are called Beyer numbers (after Andy Beyer, the guy who 'invented' them, it gives a number to each race a horse runs and is a quick way you can compare horses - a horse who runs 90's is 'faster' than a horse who runs in the 70's.

 

[ChooseORLose]

I see thanks. Won't my chances of winning be less if I stick to win bets than if I were to play show bets?

Like I just got worked and lost all three of my bets just now. The closest I came was the 12 horse coming in second. How can you deal with that kind of heart break? That was tough b/c 12 horse lost by a hair.

 

[ChooseORLose]

Where do I find racing forms?

 

[t3a]

I see thanks. Won't my chances of winning be less if I stick to win bets than if I were to play show bets?

Like I just got worked and lost all three of my bets just now. The closest I came was the 12 horse coming in second. How can you deal with that kind of heart break? That was tough b/c 12 horse lost by a hair.

Losing and winning in photos is part of the game - don't ever play quarter horses - almost every race has a photo finish.

yes, it sucks if you play a horse to win and it runs 2nd by a nose. You have to weigh the odds somewhat there - if the horse is 20-1 you might back up your bet with a place bet (or playing an exacta where you are picking 2 horses to run 1-2).

I usually don't bet show bets on long shots, because if they win , you will be disappointed with the show price if you get 2 shorter priced horses in the money with him

 

[ChooseORLose]

Where do I find racing forms?

thanks

 

[t3a]

so much info available for horse races, it can be overwhelming at first -

you should check out the free PPs (past performances) from DRF for the Derby. The Beyer number is the bold number in the middle column of each horses record. If you get them, look at Bellamy Road's 120 race - one of the fastest prep races ever . So the question is can he repeat it or was it a fluke. Look at some of the other horses in the race - a lot of times when a horse runs some super fast race faster than he has ever gone before, he 'bounces' in his next meaning he runs back to his normal (or slower).

http://www.drf.com/tc/kentuckyderby/2005/contenders.pdf

 

[jimmyk+]

Choose, if you are gonna play this game on a regular basis , you have to realize that you are fighting a house "edge" on each and every race .................this is called takeout , and is represented as a % of EVERY pool of EVERY race and can be found opposite the first race of every track in the Daily Racing Form ...............this is lowest on WPS pools in NY and CA ...........this $ is taken OFF THE TOP of every pool before the race is even run and is how the track makes it's money ............this % increases in the ex/tri/supers and pick 3's and pick 6's , so as a beginner I would stick w/ WPS wagers primarily and maybe a few exactas ..............Now, the good news , if you don't already hv an acct. at PINNACLE , GET ONE ASAP as they rebate you 7% every day on EVERY dollar you wager !!!!!! This money is put in your acct, every morning and essentially cuts their edge in half on WPS wagers , slightly less on the others .........You will be amazed how quickly this money adds up over time ....(think interest on a CD) iF YOU ARE SERIOUS ABOUT WAGERING YOUR MONEY YOU MUST HAVE AN ACCT. AT PINNACLE !!! If not , you are throwing money away ..............I'm a poker player by trade and have found two great truths ............

1. Money management is of utmost importance. this means getting the best return available on your bets , and not getting emotionally involved as you will take all manner of bad beats , just accept that they will happen, and you will be able to just turn the page and cap the next race . Remember, there are a LOT of races run on any given day and you don't have to bet em all. Pick your spots and if a horse you like is overbet , be willing to pass.....

2. Betting horses for PROFIT is one of the most difficult gambling ventures out there ..........accept that you probably WILL NOT win over the long haul unless you are VERY disciplined and get some kind of rebate on your wagers ..........I've been playing horses for 25 years and can honestly say that only in the last 3 years or so can I say I am winning consistently. It is a truly great game , but very tough to beat day in and day out . In time you will find that identifying probable winners is not that hard , but betting them in such a way as to maximize your return is the true art of this game. That is why I suggest you start w/ WPS wagers until you get comfortable w/ how the races are run based on past performance.


................I hope I don't come off as having a negative view of the game , because I LOVE it , I just want you to know that there is a learning curve and it WILL cost you some money to learn the money mngmnt. and 'capping skills ..............there is so much involved in capping each race that a lot of time is involved if you are gonna be serious about it which is why this forum is so good , there are guys here who put in the time every day and have been through the wars ,to not take advantage of their experience would be foolish ..............wish you all the best and if you have any specific questions , don't hesitate to ask !!!

 

[cardfan]

Great writeup Jimmy

 

[joelatti]

JImmy I couldn't have said it better myself....Choose do what Jimmy says, used to be that every shop gave you a rebate, sometimes 10%...but with all that has happened PINNY is NOW THE BEST

 

[ChooseORLose]

Thanks guys! I've been wanting to open an account with pinny but everytime I do something happens. I guess the problem is that I don't want to send a copy of my credit card, driver license all that. But if I must I must. They do have some of the best lines in all sports.

 

[jimmyk+]

Choose , what kind of bankroll do you plan to start with and how much risk(exposure) are you willing to accept on any given race ?? I think if you can give us an idea , it would be helpful , as I for one would be willing to gv you some ideas on how to put it to max use ..............shld be around most of today , so if ya wanna experiment a bit I'd be willing to give you my humble opinions...........

 

[ChooseORLose]

I don't know, honestly, I'm not looking to start out with any thing large. I guess I'll invest $20 dollars to get my feet wet today. I know that's not a lot. I may play more if i see potential. Right now I have an account with the greek and I'll put 20 aside for horses today

 

[ChooseORLose]

I know $20 doesn't seem like much and may not be anything worth playing but right now i'm just looking for something new to learn and keep me busy doing the days.

 

[jimmyk+]

20.00 is 20.00 ..............put in the right place , it may look like 60.00 , then invest that ............and b4 you know it you have a bankroll to play with .....................my suggestion is take the 20.00 and wait for the 5th race and see what kinda odds you get on DOC ROBBINS ................

 

[ChooseORLose]

Thanks. I like to build from little and see what I can do with it. I'm like Larry Brown rebuilding a team into champions, not Phil Jackson taking all-stars and making them winners.

Where do I look for these odds? and what should i do with the $20, like how to i bet it?