My Question To The Religious Right

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I had an issue that was of critical importance to me. Health Insurance. We have fallen through the cracks because of age and illness. Lets put that aside.

Am I not wrong with the following hypothesis. The ever growing evangelical right does not seem to be concerned with issues other than "moral values." We know what those are. I do not inherently disagree with most of them.

However as a group which is now dominated by the pre-tribulation rapture faction and knowing that Bush is seen in the eyes of most to have been placed in this office at this time by God, is not the prevailing thought in the church that the rapture is really almost upon us? Essentially therefore that would mean that Bush, in fact, is destined to carry forth the will of the Lord and as such his decisions, also in fact, will all be the correct ones in terms of inevitable destiny.

Therefore as long as he is perceived as "a man of God" nothing else matters. With the situation of Arafat and his likely choice of burial ground we then should expect to see the fight where the temple is destroyed and as such will then be rebuilt. All of prophecy will finally be fulfilled and bingo you guys and the President will hear the trumpet and will do one last flyover leaving the rest of us to cope with the anti-Christ and only 3.5 years before the torment really begins.

If I am correct in my speculation here then I can understand the re-election of George W. Bush. I have a problem with the casualties of war. You have a problem with abortion. But I don't want to muddle my question. I am just trying to rationally understand the Bush re-election.

Now one last thing. Each altar call at each revival or evangelical Christian church, sometimes three times a week, really means bye, bye Democrats for good. Even allowing for backsliders such as myself, if this is the main dynamic at play now; then we have passed the point of no return and we are no longer a democracy but rather a theocracy. We may as well have a one party system if the other party presents any issue that would spark moral indignation in the new evangelical Republican right party.

So really this is the end game. Wars, rumors of wars, famines, natural disasters, Gog and Magog and the armies from the East et all. Right or wrong?
 
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Mr Jones:

We are the "generation" that Christ referred to in his Mt of Olive sermons to the apostles ...

The USA is nowhere to be found in end times .... Bush continues to shove this idea of giving up land with Sharon .. our blanket of protection is about to be pulled ...

Think I'm nuts? Go look back at the time table and every time the USA screws with forcing Israel to give up land that was given to them by God, we get blasted by hurricanes, tornadoes, etc

The USA is not a player in end times ... the election of Bush now gives Sharon a green lite to launch against Iran .. the after effects will fast kick the upcoming Gog & Magog skirmish into fast gear ....

The USA has a scenario the govt refuses to talk about ... the "Super Volcano" in Yellowstone is getting ready to blow ... ground temps near 200 degrees and the animals have left the park in large numbers

The Rapture will reduce this country to a 3rd world country overnite .. the EU is in place and the Treaty of Rome was signed on Friday and the world is pushing hard to convert over to the Euro and leave the dollar will little value

We are there ... the Mayan calendar ends in 2012 and I totally think the possibility of seeing the 7 yr peace deal cut in the next year is a very good scenario

We shall see ... trust me, Bush aint the AC ... has never been and never will be

Take care
 

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doc,

I did not imply that Bush is the anti-Christ by any means. Bush will have taken to the skies by that time according to the pre-trib belief. The anti-Christ will be the one who cleans up the Bush mess probably. And if memory serves me right it is said he will have to be one of the European leaders.

Having grown up Catholic; then for a time studying the protestant evangelical point of view, the rapture always was a stumbling block for me. I now have my beliefs but they do not conform to any particular dogma.

My question was simple. Have we now become a theocracy beyond the point of no return? Last night I saw "moral values" being the number one concern according to exit polls. It is not a great stretch IMO for that to have been easily rephrased "religious values."

I feel both sides would agree that there were some mighty important issues on the table during this election. I think this is an important question which should be addressed. I fear the answer far more than any terrorist threat for the answer again IMO simply says "bring it on" to such a threat.

The Crusades have historically been a bloody failure except to open trade routes.
 

SSI

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Doc is really right on this one,, however i think Kerry would have rushed the thing even more.. Troops pull out of Iraq, join the EU and the one world order rather quickly.... Russia (Kings of the North) move with the arab states against Isreal with absolutely no one to stand with them...... I believe the USA's role in end times is one of passive non action..

The mention of england and the usa in end times is with Ephriam and Manassas. those 2 blessed sons represent england and usa...

the antichrist will probably come from the EU...

Mr. Jones yes the day is coming when you must choose: Jesus or some other.. think about it and choose wisely..
 
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MrsJones:

Correct ... the AC will head up the 10 Nation Federation as talked about in Daniel ... again, the USA is no where to be found in End Times and are blanket is dissolving slowly with our continual reinforcement of Sharon to give up land

Rome dissolved from within ... this country is doing the same things .. last nite is a great example: folks are cheering for Bush being put back in the White House .. a man of questionable morals at best who has bankrupt this country and has our boys involved in a war that was sold on lies

The upcoming Rapture will turn this country into a 3rd world country overnite as the USA has the largest amount of Catholics in the world .... it could happen any day and 2005 is the year I expect major events to occur that see the rise of the Anti-Christ

"Interesting" times lay ahead for this nation ...
 

I'm still here Mo-fo's
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Doc, yes very serious issues were and are on the table. In my opinion the Evangelical issues are represented in both Parties.

The Neocon Repubs have succeed in shifting the focus on "bad" religion, i.e. What you shouldn't do. Gay bad, abortion bad, immorality bad.

However they fail to recognize that many of the absolute tenets of Christianity are fundamental policies of the Democratic Party.
What we should do for our fellow man....Help the needy, help the poor, the sick, the disadvantaged. Respect for the individual and sanctity of human rights.
Somehow the Dems have allowed the shift in focus away from the inherent good nature that liberalism represents. While the right has succeeded in convincing many of the populus that the focus should be on the "bad", a rebirth of the moral majority in a twisted kind of way. A kind of desparate paranoia where the ends justify the means. Its very sad, because a ton of good, well-meaning folks buy in to that Neocon crap. The politics of scare.

Shrub is as much a Christian (his adherance to Christ's teachings) as I am heir to the British Throne. He may not be the AC but is certainly an enabler.
 
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Cussin it:

That was funny comment about Bush ...

Yeah, I am Catholic and must admit I am turned off that the Church right now is taking a stand that if "you are Catholic, you better have voted Bush .."

Sorry, Bush appears to be lip service when it comes to his religious beliefs ... I am very sad the religious sector got involved to the degree where this election was decided
 

SSI

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thank God the religious right won out this time.... You cannot support abortion or gay marriages in any way and consider yourself a good Christian or even a Christian.. thank God enough people saw it this way.... the other issues, the war in iraq and the economy, im willing to listen.....
 

I'm still here Mo-fo's
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Doc, remember the teachings, where it discusses the dangers of the false prophets. Sure many may be doing what is "right" in most people's eyes, but there is a caveat, they are wrong if it is done according with false intentions.

I think of the woman who came down from the mountains and met Christ at the well. He said something like you must seek the "accurate" knowledge and be guided by that.

The anti-christ should he exist is a master deciever, one dresses in Sheeps clothing. By allowing the many to follow a slightly twisted variation of the teachings, he achieves his goal.

ACCURATE KNOWLEDGE of the scriptural law.
 

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Good points cussin'it and SSI,

Pretty good discussion here. My neighbor who is younger than me suffers from a terminal illness. Since it came from the needle and the damage done he is very much saved today. I say that out of respect for his convictions. He knows that I have a past in the church and quite often invites me to attend. I went once this year but most always decline.

I asked him just last week if my truck with the Kerry stickers would be safe in his Assemblies parking lot. To his credit he said "No. I'll drive." I declined again.

In any event nice to see an intelligent discussion can be had in this forum. I will leave now and take my first step toward healing along with 18.5 football points and the alma mater South Florida for pizza and beer. Was not in the capping mood at all today. Just need a small fix o' foots and I'll be fine.

Peace
 
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Mrs:

Yep ... the sheep right now are blinded by what is going on .. I know folks that are proud of how has "restored dignity" to the White House .. almost funny if ya think about it .. even funnier when ya ask them to go into detail .. it becomes the stammering hour

Mine is not the position to judge ... one reason that Cheney ticks me off is his slamming of Kerry's military record when he got 5 deferments ... I find it offensive and find Cheney to represent a lot of things I find disgusting

I hope I am wrong about Bush and I can come back here and apologize ...
 

SSI

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thx Mr. Jones,,,,,,, i do not believe in forcing christianity on anyone,, i believe in merely presenting the Gospel and then letting the individual decide... i absolutely hate gay bashing but i cannot give them rights but can only pray for them.... as for Bush and the election, its irrevelant about the individual man.. Bush sins daily as we all do but its the issues..... Once again, as a Christian, i cannot in any way support or condone abortions or same sex marriages,,,,,, the economy and the war, im willing to listen......

I would really love to see a split in the democratic party and ask the ones that are against pro-choice and gay marriages to come out..... these 2 issues are the problems.....
 

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False prophets and false Christs abound doc as they were promised to us. The false revival is upon us. Used to try to discern. Now I stay home. As I said not bound by any dogma, I can read and interpret on my own.

Enjoyed the discussion gentlemen.
 

SSI

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Mr Jones, do not forget the verse in Hebrews.... do not forsake assembling yourselves together, even more so --- as you see the Day approaching..

there are hypocrits in every church, you will not be asked about them on Judgement Day....
 
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SSI:

Yep ...

Hey, I got pulled aside one Saturday morning after service ... wearing a Tshirt (nothing vulgar), sandals and shorts ... mid July in Austin, TX

Priest does intro himself .. does not say thanks for showing up .. starts dressing me down for how I was dressed ...

Throw in the endorsement of Bush and attending Church on a regular basis is challenging right now
 

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