Lots of Americans visiting France just now...

[eek.]

I hear that Paris is beautiful in the spring...

I don't think the penny has dropped yet that no-one can work with this administration because they cannot be trusted.
Its not a case of being huffy, more a case of nod, smile and then run.

--------------------------------------------
Rice seeks new chapter in Europe
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/4245381.stm

US Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice has called for a "new chapter" in the transatlantic alliance, in her first key foreign policy speech.

"It is time to turn away from the disagreements of the past," she said in Paris, adding that Europe must "stand ready to work with America". The new US secretary of state said she chose the French capital for the speech because it was a "centre of debate".

--------------------------------------------

Rumsfeld to press allies on Iraq
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/4248625.stm

US Secretary of Defence Donald Rumsfeld is due in the French city of Nice for meetings on Wednesday and Thursday with his Nato counterparts. He is expected to urge other Nato countries to contribute more to the military effort in Iraq.

 

[919]

oh wait...didn't every republican in the world laugh when kerry mentioned that he would try to get the euros on board in iraq, including the french....


i remember flipping through the channels and stopping on that ignorant ***** Linda Vester or whatever the hell her name is....she was setting up a kerry aid asking him how kerry would get anyone else to help in iraq...as soon as he mentioned france, the entire audience erupted in laughs....who is laughing now idiots!:monsters-

 

[xpanda]

"It is time to turn away from the disagreements of the past," she said in Paris, adding that Europe must "stand ready to work with America".

Honestly. I find it mind-boggling that she could explain to the Europeans that they should put the problems of the past behind them without so much as even a hint of acknowledgement that the Europeans see the rift with the US as being the fault of the US. If I smack you up one Monday morning, do I sound like an audacious boob if I tell you to put the past behind you come Thursday?

 

[JinnRikki]

The Administration apparently thinks everyone but they suffer from Alzheimers. That's particularly helpful if you like to frequently rewrite history.

 

[Lawrence]

Once France apologizes for being on the wrong side of history, we can move forward...

 

[JinnRikki]

Once France apologizes for being on the wrong side of history, we can move forward...

To whom and what would they apologize for?

 

[Lawrence]

they were very dishonest about the real reason for not wanting to support us in Iraq, which was them supporting and dealing in secret with that regime...and now that so much progress has been made, they are changing their tune?...their attitude is especially disgusting when you think about the countless times we've helped those weaklings..either way, history will show them to be the spineless, sideline clipboard holders that they always have been

 

[xpanda]

they were very dishonest about the real reason for not wanting to support us in Iraq, which was them supporting and dealing in secret with that regime...and now that so much progress has been made, they are changing their tune?...their attitude is especially disgusting when you think about the countless times we've helped those weaklings..either way, history will show them to be the spineless, sideline clipboard holders that they always have been

There is as yet no evidence to support the assertion that French leadership were aware of the OFF scandal or that it affected their decision-making in the run-up to the war. Also, Americans are implicated in the scandal. Canada, your closest ally, also opposed the war yet had no participants in the scandal. In other words, open your mind to the possibility that the two are distinct occurances, at least until such time as it can be proven otherwise.

Further, Rice's comments are directed at all of Europe, not just France. You forget that the rift really started with Rumsfeld's naming of France et al Old Europe in a childish effort to publicly chastise them. If the US had considered true diplomacy from the start, tensions might not have escalated so high.

 

[Lawrence]

X, my point is France would not have supported anything that had to do with the removal of Saddam, because they were in bed with each other..asking France for their blessing would have been a waste of time..

 

[xpanda]

And my point is that the French decision-makers, Chirac et al, didn't necessarily have anything to do with the oil-for-food scandal. The people sent to the UN are diplomats, not leaders. Your accusation is the equivalent of my asserting that Bush personally ordered the Education Department to pay that conservative commentator to pimp the No Child Left Behind Act. It's possible, sure, but equally possible that sometimes the left hand really doesn't know what the right is doing.

There were a host of reasons for nations to oppose the war on Iraq. Could you open your mind to the possibility that maybe France was inspired by one of them, instead?

 

[Lawrence]

i see your point, and i guess it is possible, but usually where there is smoke, there's fire...but you make your point well

 

[919]

weren't there some companies in Texas involved as well?

 

[JinnRikki]

And my point is that the French decision-makers, Chirac et al, didn't necessarily have anything to do with the oil-for-food scandal. The people sent to the UN are diplomats, not leaders. Your accusation is the equivalent of my asserting that Bush personally ordered the Education Department to pay that conservative commentator to pimp the No Child Left Behind Act. It's possible, sure, but equally possible that sometimes the left hand really doesn't know what the right is doing.

There were a host of reasons for nations to oppose the war on Iraq. Could you open your mind to the possibility that maybe France was inspired by one of them, instead?

Correct me if I'm wrong X, but didn't you just say essentially, wait until all the evidence is in before condemning the whole government of France. Are you perchance a grade school teacher? You do handle children well.

 

[xpanda]

i see your point, and i guess it is possible, but usually where there is smoke, there's fire...but you make your point well

Well, as 919 points out, there were Americans involved in the scandal, too. Certainly you're not suggesting that the American smoke means there was a knowledgable fire in the White House?

I've also heard it said that several member countries told the Security Council of the scandal long before the invasion of Iraq was on the table. The US, along with the rest of the council, did nothing. Maybe, just maybe, each and every one of them knew what was going on, but still didn't deem the issue a threat to everyone's national security.

My reasoning is this: if this were the only reason for France to oppose does it make sense for a gov't to be more interested in lining the pockets of a few diplomats, or to align itself with the strongest power on the planet? I personally believe France had other reasons for opposing the invasion, though I don't think they were altruistic and morally founded. Chirac seems to have been brokering his country as a sort of 'middle man' to the MidEast and North America/Europe. France could have had significant political clout had they achieved that end.

 

[Ego74]

they were very dishonest about the real reason for not wanting to support us in Iraq, which was them supporting and dealing in secret with that regime...and now that so much progress has been made, they are changing their tune?...their attitude is especially disgusting when you think about the countless times we've helped those weaklings..either way, history will show them to be the spineless, sideline clipboard holders that they always have been

imagine the criticism of Bush and the U.S. if the French were on the verge of removing Saddam, and the U.S. was against it because they were getting rich off the "oil for food" scam.

 

[xpanda]

imagine the criticism of Bush and the U.S. if the French were on the verge of removing Saddam, and the U.S. was against it because they were getting rich off the "oil for food" scam.

I love these ass-tardery comments. Did you read the rest of the thread?

Further, do you even understand that global disdain for Bush is the direct and precise result of his declaration of war on Iraq? Did you think that the rest of the world hated Bush long before he was even President?

Hint: most of us paid no attention to American politics until the drums for Iraq started to beat. Then we noticed that the world's only superpower had made the transition from soft power to belligerence. We understand fully the implications for us and we don't like it.