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hangin' about
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Three views?!?!

So, can I assume that you people don't []want[/i] to know the truth about fundamentalist Islam, that you actually prefer Bush's they-hate-our-freedoms propaganda?

Okey dokey.
 

Is that a moonbat in my sites?
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x - You expect us to believe anything that BBC Junior says? Gimmee a break - they are abpout as bigoted against the Jews and for the Muslims as an organization can get!

Now if Fox News said it.......
 

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I also like Frank Sinatra version of New York,New York. Not Pee Wee Hermans.
 

hangin' about
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bblight said:
x - You expect us to believe anything that BBC Junior says? Gimmee a break - they are abpout as bigoted against the Jews and for the Muslims as an organization can get!

Now if Fox News said it.......

Did you read it? Would you care to offer up your views on Salafist Jihadism? Do you think that the Islamic fundamentalist issue expands much further than this narrow, fringe group?

Would you care to try and discredit the freakin' content on this one instead of just the messenger for a change?
 

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[size=+1]Islamic terror based on Qu’ran: ex-CIA official[/size]
<SMALL>The Canadian Jewish News ^ | December 9, 2004 | SHELDON KIRSHNER</SMALL>


A former top official of the U.S. Central Intelligence Agency paints a menacing picture of the relationship between Islam and terrorism.

“Islamic terrorism is based on Islam as revealed through the Qu’ran,” keynote speaker Bruce Tefft claimed in a panel discussion at the University of Toronto on jihad and global terrorism. The session, held late last month, was sponsored by the Friends of Simon Wiesenthal Center and the Speakers Action Group.

Tefft, a founder of the CIA’s counter-terrorism center and now an advisor to the New York Police Department’s intelligence and counter-terrorism divisions, said that without Islam, the long-term strategy of Al Qaeda and its followers make little sense.

Linking Osama bin Laden to the attacks against the World Trade Center and the Pentagon in 2001, Tefft said: “To pretend that Islam has nothing to do with Sept. 11 is to willfully ignore the obvious and to forever misinterpret events.”

In a harsh indictment of Islam – the world’s fastest growing religion and the second-largest faith after Christianity – Tefft said that while there may be moderate Muslims, Islam itself is immoderate.

And, he added, “There is no difference between Islam and Islamic fundamentalism, which is a totalitarian construct.”

According to Tefft, the Qu’ran enjoins Muslims to believe that the whole world should be governed by the principles of Islam, an expansionist religion that has historically grown through conquest.

All infidels are to be converted, enslaved or killed, he said, drawing on the knowledge of Bernard Lewis, a Jewish historian who has written books about Islam and Islamic history.

Tefft, whose career at the CIA spanned 21 years, argued that Islam was a religion of peace and tolerance in its formative phase, but has since grown intolerant of non-Muslims.

Islam cannot be reformed because its teachings, as revealed through the Qu’ran, are regarded as the word of God, and to be a Muslim, a believer must accept the Qu’ran on a literal basis, Tefft said.

He said Islam views Judaism and Christianity as failed religions and itself as the only true religion.

Islamic terrorists are animated by passionate anti-Western convictions, Tefft argued. They blindly sacrifice their lives for the chance of going to paradise and enjoying the charms of 72 virgins.

To them, the United States is the epitome of evil, because its constitution separates church and state.

Tefft said Al Qaeda’s 700-page training manual covers all aspects of terrorism, from surveillance to assassinations, and is drawn from U.S., Russian and Iranian manuals .

“They’ve compiled the best of the best.”

Of the 6,000 or more mosques in North America, 80 per cent are radical in orientation and devoted to spreading an intolerant Wahabi strain of Islam. They are funded by Saudi Arabia, he said.

David Harris, the former head of strategic planning at the Canadian Security Intelligence Service, said that Islamic fundamentalists are hostile to Canada and consider it a “Little Satan.”

He warned that Hezbollah has begun surveying sites in Canada for possible terrorist attacks.

Canada, though, innocently thinks it is immune to such aggression, Harris said.

John Thompson, the president of the MacKenzie Institute, a Canadian research organization, said Al Qaeda has a reservoir of recruits for at least a generation to come.

Tom Kay, the chief of police in Owen Sound and the immediate past president of the Ontario Association of Chiefs of Police, said Canadian law enforcement agencies that combat terrorism are under-funded.

“We face complacency from people in power,” he said, referring to Canadian politicians at all levels.

It is scandalous that more money is not being allocated to counter-terrorism efforts, Kay said.

Leo Adler, the director of national affairs for Friends of the Simon Wiesenthal Center, urged Canada to be more resolute in fighting terrorism. Rather than operating in a vacuum, Jihadists work with highly honed organizations that supply them with funds, logistical support and intelligence, Adler commented.
 

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Patriot:

Well, just like the vast majority of Christian fundies with their Bibles, yes, fundy Islamics think the Qu'ran is the direct word of god.

And, yes, they think that the US is the epitome of evil because it is secular (well, supposed to be, anyway.) (Hey, does this mean that if you align church and state that you'll be appeasing the terrorists??)

BUT, none of this means that they wish to overthrow your government and occupy your country as you are being led to believe, does it?

Nutshell version of what they want (the fundies, that is, not all Muslims):

They want the return of the Caliphate. This area is the MidEast, parts of Northern Africa, parts of Europe, and parts of Asia. They want all the non-believers, Christians, Jews, Hindus, etc. in these regions to be converted, exiled or killed. They want all of Islam to rise up, gain solidarity (which they sorely lack as we all know) and overthrow all of the secular governments in these regions. They want the Caliphate back as a full-on, unified, Islamic empire.

Yes, they need to be stopped.

But, no, they are not going to be 'fighting' with you on your turf.

And, the war in Iraq gave them two things:

1. you've helped unify many Muslims and may have turned many into fanatics
2. you've overthrown a secular regime and, since you'll have difficulty winning this war in the long run, will probably get to watch as it gives way down the road to an Islamic replacement. Cross your fingers that it's Shi'ia.

Because 9/11 brought on exactly the response they wanted, you're going to get hit again. American military response will be predictable.
 

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OK President Panda.What would you suggest?

Would you continue to allow the UN to scam and Saddam to get fat and pass his money around to terroist to be a pain in the ass to the US.(and you know damn well he funded terrorist groups at least by 3rd party means.)
He knew damn well that the UN would not be for a war against him when all those 3rd world pygamies are in his back pocket.

Honestly what would you suggest?
 

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Well, Saddam was certainly a monster, there's no getting around that. If he needed to be taken out (and certainly an argument can be made that he would re-ignite his WMD programmes, or try to, after the sanctions were lifted ... or, once the OfF scandal broke, we'd realise he had all kinds of cash) but he did not need to be taken out in a war.

I would have backed a coup via the Shi'ia (this was being done in the early 90s, then was abandoned) OR would have sent in assassins. Not impossible, btw.

But, Saddam and the Salafists are very different. Saddam was helping Hamas, not AQ. He would have to be suicidal to help AQ.

So, what would I do? I would have done what was done in Afghanistan, then I would have backed off the region somewhat. I certainly would not bolster policies that fuel anti-American sentiment, like invading and occupying an Arabic nation without reasonable justification. I would subsequently give Europe and other regions dealing with the fundies my full support, and would bolster investigative efforts.

I would stop bolstering dictatorial regimes in the ME, and might re-consider my physical presence in the Peninsula.

Oh, and I certainly wouldn't keep my prisoners from testifying at the trial of the only guy ever convicted in connection to 9/11 so that the bastard could walk free. Not only would that make it look like I'm not serious about tracking down these guys, but it also pisses off countries I should be cooperating with.

Oh, and I wouldn't propagandise my population by telling them that they hate us for our freedoms and they might be right down the street and that we should all be very very very scared of them. I would be honest about what 9/11 was and how we were not going to make matters worse and how we were going to work with the international community to make fundamentalism less attractive to the moderates.

Thanks for asking.
 

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