John Kerry and Hanoi Jane?????

[Lt.Dan]

I was wondering how long it would take Junior and his SS troops to respond to the Nation's questions regarding his military "service" by denigrating a "real" American hero.

I belonged to the Vietnam Veterans Against the War. The VVAW platform was very clear, either fight the war to win or get out! A politcal war that is not run by the military is a very dangerous situation. VVAW had nothing to do w/ Hanoi Jane, although we did welcome help from anyone who shared our views on the proper way to conduct the war in Southeast Asia. Kerry has never lied about his opposition to the war when he returned after being wounded 3 times.

Ms. Fonda made her famous stand 2 years after that particular rally that was attended by Senator Kerry and Ms. Fonda. Hanoi Jane will probably never be forgiven for the actions that she took many years ago by the majority of Vietnam Veterans!

Semper Fi,

Lt. Dan

 

[SanJose]

Lt. Dan,

You seemingly would know something about military courts, so let me ask you this:

True or False: It is a criminal act for a soldier to witness a war crime (torture or murder of a non-combatant) and not report it? ANSWER is TRUE

True or False: John Kerry gave testimony before the US Senate where he backed up claims made by non-military anti-war advocates that US soldiers committed atrocities in Vietnam that amounted to war crimes, and Kerry testified that he had personal knowledge of such crimes?
ANSWER is TRUE

True or False: John Kerry never reported these alleged crimes while he was still an active member of the US Armed Forces?
ANSWER is TRUE

Well, then that means one of the following FACTS aboslutely MUST be true:

1. John Kerry LIED and PERJURED himself before the US Senate.

2. John Kerry was guilty of a major offense that could have amounted to a war crime by not reporting his fellow soldiers.

Riddle that one Left Wing Batmen. You guys better call on Lander to help you with this one, he's the only one of you leftists on this forum with the brain power and utter deceitfulness to SPIN an answer to this one.

 

[Shotgun]

We never did get an reply from Lt Dan regarding these charges.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by SanJose:
Lt. Dan,

You seemingly would know something about military courts, so let me ask you this:

True or False: It is a criminal act for a soldier to witness a war crime (torture or murder of a non-combatant) and not report it? ANSWER is TRUE

True or False: John Kerry gave testimony before the US Senate where he backed up claims made by non-military anti-war advocates that US soldiers committed atrocities in Vietnam that amounted to war crimes, and Kerry testified that he had personal knowledge of such crimes?
ANSWER is TRUE

True or False: John Kerry never reported these alleged crimes while he was still an active member of the US Armed Forces?
ANSWER is TRUE

Well, then that means one of the following FACTS aboslutely MUST be true:

1. John Kerry LIED and PERJURED himself before the US Senate.

2. John Kerry was guilty of a major offense that could have amounted to a war crime by not reporting his fellow soldiers.

Riddle that one Left Wing Batmen. You guys better call on Lander to help you with this one, he's the only one of you leftists on this forum with the brain power and utter deceitfulness to SPIN an answer to this one.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

 

[Tablarasa]

Well, the answer is obvious.

Its okay for leftist war heros who later opposed the war they were in to lie and break the rules, just not for people to be in the reserves.

 

[wilheim]

John Kerry never reported these ALLEGED crimes while he was still an active member of the US Armed Forces?

The key word here is alleged, which essentially means without proof. The truth was that the Vietnam conflict was a fight aqainst an enemy that wore no uniform, and took no specific form. The VC came in all shapes and sizes, men, women, children. No one knew what was a war crime, and what was real combat. To imply that Kerry is a war criminal for not reporting events that went on everyday, is to imply that the millons of real combat veterans (Kerry included) who fought the war, many giving their lives in the process, are all traitors and war criminals. (btw. that is what we were called by the American public when we returned). Everyone who saw ground combat saw many terrible atrocities by both sides, in case you did'nt know, that is why they call it war. Unless you were there, you have no idea what you are talking about. Incuding your hero in the WH.


wil.

 

[Tablarasa]

The VC certainly did their best to muddle things like that up for you guys, that is for certain.

 

[sphincter]

can you say,"end run?"......where`s the answer.....either he saw war crimes as he TESTIFIED or he didn`t.....was he lying?...embelishing?.....

what`s the answer....

i don`t dislike kerry...but,the guy seems to have made a career out of having it both ways..

 

[Tablarasa]

I agree with you on that Sphincter. I think Edwards would be a much better candidate.

 

[PatPatriot]

Another thing I find puzzeling the out cry for Bushes military record.But, John "Fraud" Kerrys full record has not been released.


Also, Jane Fonda must have been told to distance herself from Kerry.according to a newsmax article.

 

[Lt.Dan]

Junior's military record or lack thereof is the least of that weasles' worries.

Well girls, it's off to Gotham City for the BIG CELEBRATION on Super Tuesday. My hometown, haven't been in NYC for 5 years. I hope Senator Clinton is in town. I will personally thank her for her work on behalf of Veterans. She will be President one day. The hand that rocks the cradle, rules the world.

Semper Fi,

Lt. Dan

 

[FloydGondolli]

Dan, so you are just ignoring San Jose's questions? Am I to assume that you are in agreement with his conclusions?

 

[Shotgun]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by wilheim:
The key word here is alleged, which essentially means without proof. The truth was that the Vietnam conflict was a fight aqainst an enemy that wore no uniform, and took no specific form. The VC came in all shapes and sizes, men, women, children. No one knew what was a war crime, and what was real combat. To imply that Kerry is a war criminal for not reporting events that went on everyday, is to imply that the millons of real combat veterans (Kerry included) who fought the war, many giving their lives in the process, are all traitors and war criminals. (btw. that is what we were called by the American public when we returned). Everyone who saw ground combat saw many terrible atrocities by both sides, in case you did'nt know, that is why they call it war. Unless you were there, you have no idea what you are talking about. Incuding your hero in the WH.

wil.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Wil, you were over there. Did you, on a daily basis, see soldiers who "personally raped, cut off ears, cut off heads, taped wires from portable telephones to human genitals and turned up the power, cut off limbs, blown up bodies, randomly shot at civilians, razed villages in fashion reminiscent of Ghengis Khan, shot cattle and dogs for fun, poisoned food stocks, and generally ravaged the countryside of South Vietnam in addition to the normal ravage of war and the normal and very particular ravaging which is done by the applied bombing power of this country."

Kerry is the one who painted you and others over there as war criminals. From talking to my uncles, other friends, and dozens of drunks at the VFW, I think Kerry was simply repeating a lie told by anti-war veterans who were encouraged by activists to put an evil spin on the war.

 

[jointpleasures]

We will see in November what percentage of the military vote will go to Bush, won't we.

Give it up already, the present day soldier is superiorly armed and more sound of mind regarding the proper use of the American military defenses and offenses. Go back to talking SS and health care as you libs have been able to pull the wool over the eyes of the American people for a lot of years. Oh no! kinda fading a bit on those issues now - about time. na na na na - goodbye!

 

[wilheim]

Remember what this war in Iraq stands for:

A war launched with falsehoods, distortions and deception.
An occupation by troops untrained & unprepared to run a country.
Soldiers dying and wounded needlessly for politicians who avoided war themselves.
Corporations reaping huge profits & oil companies staking out new turf.
Veterans whose benefits are cut and treatment is neglected.
Conflict in the name of “democracy” while our rights are undermined in the name of “security”.
An economy with money for prisons but not for schools, for guns but not for health care.
Soldiers drafted by poverty and lack of opportunity based on promised benefits, training and education.
The prospect of more wars fought by working people & the poor for the privileged and the rich.

We shall see indeed how the military votes in November.

wil.

 

[Sodium Pentethol V]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Remember what this war in Iraq stands for <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Remember what Aemrica stands for

1)Only superpower left on earth
2)Responsible for the largest advancement of mankind in the history of earth
3)70% of all commerce and industry is conducted in USD
4)The liberation of oppressed people's worldwide fr Kosovo to former soveit blocs
5)Only country that medical brakthrough is part of the langauge

SO TAKE YOUR ASININE AND FALSE LITTLE QUIPS AND CRAM THEM UP YOUR A S S.

 

[Sodium Pentethol V]

Remember what this war in Iraq stands for:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>A war launched with falsehoods, distortions and deception.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Really???????????? False pretenses DID HE OR DID HE NOT VIOLATE 18 UN RESOLUTIONS? Think the other malcontent leaders of the world want to be dragged by their hair from a hole in the ground? Yea false pretenses, BUSH IS WINNING THE WAR THAT COUNTS.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>An occupation by troops untrained & unprepared to run a country. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

200 plus years of liberation and yet you prefer the oppressive dictator, who inevitably would've become an imminent threat if he wasn't already.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Soldiers dying and wounded needlessly for politicians who avoided war themselves.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Really funny I feel safer now, isn;t that the point of the miltary to make it safer for me and my family? I guess not, cause if it was up to you, we would juts kick backand wait for the nuke to explode in NYC before reacting, wait until the guy really is a formidable foe, then send them off the be murdered.
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Corporations reaping huge profits & oil companies staking out new turf. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Damn those capitalists. hey you want socilism, move to europe, we left and started this place so those that work hard can escape oppressive taxation.
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Veterans whose benefits are cut and treatment is neglected.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I am certain you mean the same veterans who enjoy a quality of life commensurate with royalty elsewhere?
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Conflict in the name of “democracy” while our rights are undermined in the name of “security”. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Freedom all in the name of treason, seriously like a socialist state move back to the old country.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>An economy with money for prisons but not for schools, for guns but not for health care. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

If you phucking morons have your way you will phuck up the world's finest medical system the same way you phucked up the world's greatest education and legal systems. Yea more taxes, more taxes, more taxes, seriously we fought the revolution to avoid people like you, people who punish those who actually work to get ahead.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Soldiers drafted by poverty and lack of opportunity based on promised benefits, training and education.
The prospect of more wars fought by working people & the poor for the privileged and the rich. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Seriously, want to live in a classless society that values equality over innovation, risk and hard work. THen phucking move and stop ruining my country.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>We shall see indeed how the military votes in November.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yea the military will vote for scumbag Kerry? What a phucking idiot, please move, stop dumbing down our gene pool.

 

[Shotgun]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by wilheim:
Shotgun - No I can't say I saw a lot of what you describe, especially on a daily basis. I have never seen any American soldier cut off a head, or limb, or for that matter deliberately torture any one who was apparently an innocent civilian. The day to day war itself could be extremely brutal in between long periods of boredom. Everyone who was there has their own personal experiences, including myself. I was Air Cav. and operated within a unit that maintained a high degree of morale. We fought with discipline, and ferocity, but not barbarism. The truth is I don't know what Kerry saw, or where or when he saw it. Such are the vagaries of combat. My whole point is whatever happened, it was not a place where you could call 911, to use a mataphor, shit just happened, and you dealt with it no matter how brutal.
wil.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Wil, my problem with Kerry is that he paints the whole Viet veteran with one brush that includes accusations of war crimes. I don't believe it happened that way, and you are just one confirmation that it didn't. I doubt Kerry saw any war crimes being committed other than the usual ruthlessness that war begets. He did however repeat rumors that war crimes occurred on a daily basis; everything I know tells me this is a falsehood. I volunteered in 1987; maybe I was lucky but those that trained me believed in the legalities of war and made damn sure that I knew I could not obey an illegal order if one came down the pipe. Kerry, as an officer, had a duty to report war crimes if he saw them. He apparently didn't; I doubt he saw any. To repeat such rumors, as he did in 1971, did a major disservice to the soldiers who fought and died for this country. Maybe it was wrong to be in Vietnam and maybe it wasn't, but Kerry characterized veterans who served in the military at that time to be war criminals on a daily basis. That is where I have to draw the line; I have far more respect for someone who opposed the war and fought against it than I do for someone who opposed the war, fought in the war, then came home and slandered every soldier who gave his blood and soul for the country. Kerry, through his comments after his discharge, did this. You can oppose a war on the right and wrong basis; he opposed the war by accusing all who fought in it as being compliant in war crimes. To me that is far more despicable than fighting in an unjust war.

 

[Sodium Pentethol V]

Where'd you go Willie?

huh King of Misinformation,

anything but that in your post here?