It's a recession not a 'catastrophe'

Search

Member
Handicapper
Joined
Mar 7, 2005
Messages
8,891
Tokens
IT'S A RECESSION NOT A 'CATASTROPHE'

oped025a.jpg



PRESIDENT Obama, writing in The Washington Post, said, "By now, it's clear to everyone that we have inherited an economic crisis as deep and dire as any since the days of the Great Depression." But how would we know if and when this crisis is really more "deep and dire" than others?

Many may believe we're in the worst recession since the Great Depression, if only because politicians and the press keep repeating that claim. But we need to compare some facts to discern whether this recession is (or will be) "worse" in some sense than those of 1973-75 or 1981-82.

Congressional Budget Office Director Douglas Elmendorf told the House Budget Committee that if the economy is still contracting by mid-year, then this recession will be longer than the 1981-82 and 1973-75 downturns, each of which lasted 16 months. Yet this recession was quite mild until last September. And the severity and human discomfort of downturns can't be measured by their duration.

A wise adviser to President John Kennedy, Arthur Okun of Yale, devised the "misery index" to gauge the pain of economic crisis - a measure that simply adds together the unemployment rate and the inflation rate. It hit 22 percent in June 1980, during an inflationary recession that preceded the Fed's disinflationary squeeze of 1981-82. The misery index was nearly as bad in January 1975, at 19.9 percent.

Assuming inflation was close to zero this January, the misery index would have been roughly the same as the unemployment rate, or 7.6 percent. By this standard, we have a very long way to go before the economy feels nearly as miserable as it did in 1975 or 1980.

There are several other ways to measure economic distress, however, some of which are shown in the nearby table. The first two columns show the total change in real GDP and industrial production from the economy's peak to its trough for that cycle.

Current data show only what happened so far, of course. But that gives us some idea of how much further the economy would have to fall to end up as "deep and dire" as the recessions of 1973-75 or 1981-82...

http://www.nypost.com/seven/0209200.../its_a_recession_not_a_catastrophe_154174.htm
 

Rx .Junior
Joined
Feb 24, 2005
Messages
2,376
Tokens
Wheres the part about Foreclosues in those figures... theres over 1 million homes currently in FC... wheres the data for 81-82?
 

New member
Joined
Sep 20, 2004
Messages
6,066
Tokens
question: did they have bailouts/stimulous checks/'printing money' fests during those other two recessions, like the ones they have been doing in the last year?

would love to see the increase in national debt added to those stats
 

bushman
Joined
Sep 22, 2004
Messages
14,457
Tokens
Everything is bigger and better nowadays.

Especially the bullshit about the recession.
 

bushman
Joined
Sep 22, 2004
Messages
14,457
Tokens
question: did they have bailouts/stimulous checks/'printing money' fests during those other two recessions, like the ones they have been doing in the last year?

would love to see the increase in national debt added to those stats

In the UK 1970s one they printed money as wages were forced upwards to keep the workers' buying power afloat.
Gold went from $40 to $800

In the 1980s one they just let the jobs market go completely tits up.
Thatcher allowed no extra cash, mass unemployment and mass redundancies were used to stabilise the system.
Thatcher only survived the 1983 election because of the jingoism from the Falklands war.
Gold went from $800 to $200.

(<)<
 

Conservatives, Patriots & Huskies return to glory
Handicapper
Joined
Sep 9, 2005
Messages
87,146
Tokens
It's the same argument I've been making for sometime now MJ. The difference is cable TV, 24 hour news and the internet all pounding people every minute of every day mixed in with a fear mongering president that actually believes he's the answer.
 

Rx .Junior
Joined
Feb 24, 2005
Messages
2,376
Tokens
question: did they have bailouts/stimulous checks/'printing money' fests during those other two recessions, like the ones they have been doing in the last year?

would love to see the increase in national debt added to those stats


No but they all occured bc someone with an R next to their name was in Office at the time... The R doesnt stand for Republican anymore - It now stands for Recessionmaker....
 

New member
Joined
Sep 20, 2004
Messages
6,066
Tokens
another crazy stat I heard the other day (I am merely asking because I dont know enough about economy to start debating) was that some crazy amount (say 1/3rd of the World's wealth or the US wealth or something along those lines) evaporated during 2008 or something like that

again, could have been the same thing in other recessions

I do agree that having internet/24 hour news etc makes it even worse but its also true that same thing allows investors to act even crazier as they now have their fingers on the button to sell/buy etc at the slightlest sign of trouble
 

New member
Joined
Sep 20, 2004
Messages
6,066
Tokens
mixed in with a fear mongering president that actually believes he's the answer.

on pleaseeeeeeee

"our economy is fine"

few days later (back in September)

"if we dont act immediately and do x,y,z the economy will be in big trouble, approve this now PLEASEEEEEEEEEEE "

I am in desbelief that the current administration is THE fear mongering LOL
 

the bear is back biatches!! printing cancel....
Joined
Mar 31, 2006
Messages
24,692
Tokens
i love using peak worse stats for past recessions to compare to middle of the current recession/depression stats

that said depressions it isn't necessarily about peak pain

its about the length of pain and how the entire global economy is going down the tubes all at once (there is nobody to pick up the slack).....like in japan's "lost decade" at least they still had a good export market to sell too even though their banks were fucked to no end......

plus this situation vs. the 70s/80s is totally different inflation is relatively easy to fight with monetary policy....deflation on the other hand is a bitch (as we saw in the 30s)

anyway give it some time

the guys saying things aren't that bad the same ones that were arguing with tiz that dow wouldn't fall to sub 10k and i was full of shit with my doom and gloom prior to markets falling off a cliff
 

the bear is back biatches!! printing cancel....
Joined
Mar 31, 2006
Messages
24,692
Tokens
In the UK 1970s one they printed money as wages were forced upwards to keep the workers' buying power afloat.
Gold went from $40 to $800

In the 1980s one they just let the jobs market go completely tits up.
Thatcher allowed no extra cash, mass unemployment and mass redundancies were used to stabilise the system.
Thatcher only survived the 1983 election because of the jingoism from the Falklands war.
Gold went from $800 to $200.

(<)<

obviously inflation eats u dude's alive since you import so many things

so that time vs. this time is different for that reason

we just dealing with two totally different situations here

inflationary recessions are fairly easy to fight and tend to be quick sharp pain

deflationary death spirals where the whole global economy is going down the tubes all at once can spiral outta control for a while and lead to depressions like in the 30s
 

the bear is back biatches!! printing cancel....
Joined
Mar 31, 2006
Messages
24,692
Tokens
and at least back than people with money could get a good return on their investment for stashing it away in the safety of a CD or something

today there are no good options right now (well tiz still likes the yellow inert metal on the long side for safety) other than waiting for stock market to get a bit cheaper

1 year CDs going for like 1% now

10 year treasury at 2.9%

A savings account i'm starting to think they might be taking money from you soon instead of paying interest the rates are so low

LOL
 
Joined
Oct 30, 2006
Messages
40,109
Tokens
and at least back than people with money could get a good return on their investment for stashing it away in the safety of a CD or something

today there are no good options right now (well tiz still likes the yellow inert metal on the long side for safety) other than waiting for stock market to get a bit cheaper

1 year CDs going for like 1% now

10 year treasury at 2.9%

A savings account i'm starting to think they might be taking money from you soon instead of paying interest the rates are so low

LOL
Shop around is all I can say.. www.bankrate.com
 

Life's a bitch, then you die!
Joined
Jul 10, 2007
Messages
28,910
Tokens
No but they all occured bc someone with an R next to their name was in Office at the time... The R doesnt stand for Republican anymore - It now stands for Recessionmaker....

James Earl "Jimmy" Carter, Jr. (born October 1, 1924) served as the 39th President of the United States from 1977 to 1981.
Contrary to popular belief the above was a Republican according to you. Good one. ##)
 

Honey Badger Don't Give A Shit
Joined
Sep 21, 2004
Messages
46,540
Tokens
Well at least JoeJr is finally acknowledging the existence of an economic recession nationally. In October, he had everything being peachy nationwide.
 

New member
Joined
Nov 8, 2006
Messages
9,491
Tokens
James Earl "Jimmy" Carter, Jr. (born October 1, 1924) served as the 39th President of the United States from 1977 to 1981.
Contrary to popular belief the above was a Republican according to you. Good one. ##)

20 days into 81. Then it was RRtheR. Maybe it was just me but everything seemed fine until early 84 then it went to hell in a handbasket.
 

Honey Badger Don't Give A Shit
Joined
Sep 21, 2004
Messages
46,540
Tokens
Bringing to mind the question of, Why is the Handbasket the vehicle of choice when going down to the nether regions?
 

Officially Punching out Nov 25th
Joined
Sep 21, 2004
Messages
8,482
Tokens
One problem this recession will have over the previous recessions is that a huge portion of the population were set to retire in the next 5 years. Middle Class baby boomers are gonna be forced to work a few more years.
 

Life's a bitch, then you die!
Joined
Jul 10, 2007
Messages
28,910
Tokens
20 days into 81. Then it was RRtheR. Maybe it was just me but everything seemed fine until early 84 then it went to hell in a handbasket.

The final year of his presidential tenure was marked by several major crises, including the 1979 takeover of the American embassy in Iran and holding of hostages by Iranian students, a failed rescue attempt of the hostages, serious fuel shortages, high unemployment and inflation. Did you sleep through those years or were you in a coma?
Denial is bliss. ##)
 

New member
Joined
Nov 8, 2006
Messages
9,491
Tokens
Pain in the ass except I had a nice sailboat and the lake was the quietest it has ever been. but the Arab oil embargo was a real problem.

Poor Jimmy had he been a republican he would have known the way deal with Iran was to bribe them like Ronnie did. And we did have a strech of unbelievable inflation.

The job losses came in the early to mid 80's (depending where you were) and that was the recession.
 

Forum statistics

Threads
1,119,870
Messages
13,574,445
Members
100,879
Latest member
am_sports
The RX is the sports betting industry's leading information portal for bonuses, picks, and sportsbook reviews. Find the best deals offered by a sportsbook in your state and browse our free picks section.FacebookTwitterInstagramContact Usforum@therx.com