It is NOT a Bailout !!!!!!

[tiznow]

it could turn out to be VERY profitable.

:nohead:

maybe if we pump another 3 trillion into the economy to hyperinflate the housing bubble back to life but at that point you not gaining anything in nominal terms

anyway continue to ignore me....

i'm off for the night

:toast:

 

[C-Gold]

:nohead:

maybe if we pump another 3 trillion into the economy to hyperinflate the housing bubble back to life but at that point you not gaining anything in nominal terms

anyway continue to ignore me....

i'm off for the night

:toast:

We are one week into the AIG deal. It opened at $1.85 last Tuesday and had a market cap. of around $4 billion. The government announced the loan and warrants to get 80% of the equity of AIG. The stock is now at $5.31 with a market cap around $14 billion. Ironically, AIG shareholders are scrambling to pay back the loan before the government can exercise the warrants.

 

[quot7quot]

:nohead:

maybe if we pump another 3 trillion into the economy to hyperinflate the housing bubble back to life but at that point you not gaining anything in nominal terms

anyway continue to ignore me....

i'm off for the night

:toast:

I'm not ignoring you. I agree with you. You say Hank can do whatever Hank wants and I dont think that will happen. Even if it did, no way in hell he gives sweetie pie $9,100 for his $9,100 loan. No chance. No way

 

[Risk44]

:nohead:

maybe if we pump another 3 trillion into the economy to hyperinflate the housing bubble back to life but at that point you not gaining anything in nominal terms

well continue to ignore me

i'm off for the night

:toast:

Yeah me too... We are all nuts and he is the sane one here... :nohead:

Maybe this will be as good as an investment as Palin selling her plane on Ebay... All you republicans know the govt is so efficient at business and all.. thats what C gold says.. :nohead:

 

[tiznow]

We are one week into the AIG deal. It opened at $1.85 last Tuesday and had a market cap. of around $4 billion. The government announced the loan and warrants to get 80% of the equity of AIG. The stock is now at $5.31 with a market cap around $14 billion. Ironically, AIG shareholders are scrambling to pay back the loan before the government can exercise the warrants.

bad bad example...nice try

of course it is for now since the government is now preparing to buy all of its CDS garbage NOW which is what brought it to its knees to begin with

the AIG shit woulda never had to happen if they took these steps prior to its demise

they needed an event to happen in order to get the power grab they want to help all these fraudulent bastards clean up the toxic shit

of course AIG shareholders scrambling under the new proposal

now there will be a market based on whatever the hanktator says in order to clear out their toxic portfolio and they have a good business otherwise

 

[desrat]

6 dictionary results for: bail out
Dictionary.com Unabridged (v 1.1) - Cite This Source - Share This
bail3 /beɪl/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[beyl] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation
–verb (used with object)
1. to dip (water) out of a boat, as with a bucket.
2. to clear of water by dipping (usually fol. by out): to bail out a boat.
–verb (used without object)
3. to bail water.
–noun
4. Also, bailer. a bucket, dipper, or other container used for bailing.
—Verb phrase
5. bail out,
a. to make a parachute jump from an airplane.
b. to relieve or assist (a person, company, etc.) in an emergency situation, esp. a financial crisis: The corporation bailed out its failing subsidiary through a series of refinancing operations.
c. to give up on or abandon something, as to evade a responsibility: His partner bailed out before the business failed.

If 5 a & b don't fit the description of this situation I'm not sure what does.

You bring up capital requirements. If a bank is holding these assets at an unrealistic level and are forced (Paulson's original plan says he can force) to sell this toxic sludge for a significant haircut; what will that do to their capital requirements? I hope the FDIC has enough employees.

 

[quot7quot]

If 5 a & b don't fit the description of this situation I'm not sure what does.

You bring up capital requirements. If a bank is holding these assets at an unrealistic level and are forced (Paulson's original plan says he can force) to sell this toxic sludge for a significant haircut; what will that do to their capital requirements? I hope the FDIC has enough employees.

That was the only point I was trying to make

 

[C-Gold]

Sweetlou- C-Gold is NOT a republican, and neither are most of the government officials who call themselves republicans.

Tiz- These CDO's are not all garbage. They are selling for pennies on the dollar NOW, and they are backed by physical, tangible, whatever you want to call it real estate.

 

[desrat]

I should add that I don't think this is a handout which is what you seem to be trying to say, but it is a bailout with the taxpayer loading up on all the risk.

Sorry 7, I was directing my reply to C-gold.

 

[Risk44]

OK from now on its called " NOT a Bailout"

Hows that "NOT a Bailout" thing goin? Are the Banks gonna screw the taxpayers in that "NOT a Bailout" program?

:nohead::nohead:

 

[C-Gold]

If 5 a & b don't fit the description of this situation I'm not sure what does.

You bring up capital requirements. If a bank is holding these assets at an unrealistic level and are forced (Paulson's original plan says he can force) to sell this toxic sludge for a significant haircut; what will that do to their capital requirements? I hope the FDIC has enough employees.

What is unrealistic?

 

[tiznow]

Tiz- These CDO's are not all garbage. They are selling for pennies on the dollar NOW, and they are backed by physical, tangible, whatever you want to call it real estate.

they are highly leveraged so even a 10-20% drop in value makes them worth next to nothing

RE prices aren't going back to bubble prices in the next 10 years or so unless we inflate in a big way

this was a biggest housing bubble in american history

home price/income ratios got super duper outta wack

also if you want to see historically how this type of situation has worked out....and with it big government intervention

look to japan for answers

 

[Risk44]

they are highly leveraged so even a 10-20% drop in value makes them worth next to nothing

RE prices aren't going back to bubble prices in the next 10 years or so unless we inflate in a big way

this was a biggest housing bubble in american history

home price/income ratios got super duper outta wack

also if you want to see historically how this type of situation has worked out....and with it big government intervention

look to japan for answers

Did Japan have a "NOT a Bailout" Program their too?

 

[C-Gold]

I should add that I don't think this is a handout which is what you seem to be trying to say, but it is a bailout with the taxpayer loading up on all the risk.

Sorry 7, I was directing my reply to C-gold.

It is not a handout...

You cite the taxpayer taking on "risk"
Isn't the alternative "risky" as well ?

I don't agree with the move, but our friends on the left paint the picture as though George W. Bush is personally writing a check to Wallstreet with your tax dollars.

 

[desrat]

What is unrealistic?

Any price for something that has no market is unrealistic. If you can't sell something it is worthless. These derivatives have been kept on books, or worse shifted off book to SIVs and other Level III holes, at the purchase price, thereby giving these institutions an unrealistic capital reserve. To think that buying these things at 30, 40, 90% discounts is gong to help them is unrealistic. Mark to Market is going to kill a lot of firms.

 

[C-Gold]

Japan is a good history of what NOT to do. Sweeden and Taiwan are also case studies.

In the case of Taiwan, the government started buying stock/equity in these depressed companies and MADE money... Like what has happened with AIG in the brief time we have intervened.

 

[quot7quot]

It is not a handout...

You cite the taxpayer taking on "risk"
Isn't the alternative "risky" as well ?

I don't agree with the move, but our friends on the left paint the picture as though George W. Bush is personally writing a check to Wallstreet with your tax dollars.

That's because thats the easy thing to do...blame Bush. I am no Bush fan (even though I voted for him twice) but the blame for this debacle does not fully belong on his doorstep. If memory serves, it was slick Willy who eased the restrictions on Fannie & Freddie which poured gasoline on this smoldering fire.

 

[C-Gold]

What is unrealistic?

Any price for something that has no market is unrealistic. If you can't sell something it is worthless. These derivatives have been kept on books, or worse shifted off book to SIVs and other Level III holes, at the purchase price, thereby giving these institutions an unrealistic capital reserve. To think that buying these things at 30, 40, 90% discounts is gong to help them is unrealistic. Mark to Market is going to kill a lot of firms.

A lot of these firms have already been writing these assets down.

What is demand comprised of?

 

[desrat]

I didn't mean to imply you thought it was a handout C-gold, just that when you were yelling it wasn't a bailout what you were saying is it wasn't a handout. Nit picking? Maybe, but I have been going round and round with a lot of people the past week, and semantics always seems to get in the way.

 

[tiznow]

Japan is a good history of what NOT to do. Sweeden and Taiwan are also case studies.

In the case of Taiwan, the government started buying stock/equity in these depressed companies and MADE money... Like what has happened with AIG in the brief time we have intervened.

the rules changed since they took over AIG hno:

well the hanktator is in the process of trying to change the rules i should say :lolBIG: