Idiot soccer fan question # 3 Was pele really that good or has the legend outgrown the player?

[CHOPTALK]

Never seen him play.havent even really seen a highlight.

But chances are you can really make the case that he is the most famous athlete in the history of the world.

Was he really that good?

Are there players today that are just as good or better?

 

[JustinCruise]

I think everyone's legend outgrows their reality to some extent. Not just athletes.

 

[JudgeWapner]

He was that good. The best of his generation. Got to see him late in his career and he still had tools.

 

[slapshot]

he was the one who changed the game

 

[CHOPTALK]

If you reincarnated him to today would he be better then Ronaldo or that other guy that starts with an M that I can't think of right now?lol

 

[slapshot]

If you reincarnated him to today would he be better then Ronaldo or that other guy that starts with an M that I can't think of right now?lol

Messi

hard to say or measure how much better but he wouldn't play 2nd fiddle

 

[HarryCaray]

I will totally admit to being a soccer idiot (by choice), but I just don't see what makes a great soccer player SO GREAT. Nothing I've seen that they do makes me go WOW like in other sports. So the Renaldo's of the world kick the ball harder? Have slightly fancier moves? He runs faster?

I guess what I'm saying is I just don't see such a huge skill jump between a mediocre pro and a star like I do with other sports. Certainly not enough to merit the God-like status that these soccer greats get. I'm sure it's just my ignorance but that's how I see it.

 

[bigtendominator]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EJM4tTmTH2o

 

[Bourn]

You could make an argument both ways. No one has won more world cups (Pele 3) although the 1962 World Cup Pele didn't play much in as he was injured in the first game. Pele scored 1281 goals in 1363 games. Something like 1.2 goals per game. Aside from the goals and World Cup wins the biggest difference in today's game has been the technological advancements in the boots, pitch, and mostly ball. Today's ball is much lighter which makes it much easier to head and put spin on. I think you could relate comparing Pele and Messi like Nicklaus and Tiger. The technological advancements in new equipment have given the same advantage to current player in the way soccer has.

 

[JDeuce]

1,282 goals in 1,363 career games counting both club and country. Those numbers are almost unbelievable.

I wasn't around to see him play...but from the video I've seen, he was just way ahead of his time. Kind of like how Wilt Chamberlain scored 100 pts against 5-foot-6 stiffs, but would obviously never do that if he played in today's NBA.

Is Pele the most talented player ever? I don't think so. If you had dropped Messi or Ronaldo into the 1960s and placed them against similar competition, I think there's a fair chance you'd see similar results.

 

[slapshot]

I will totally admit to being a soccer idiot (by choice), but I just don't see what makes a great soccer player SO GREAT. Nothing I've seen that they do makes me go WOW like in other sports. So the Renaldo's of the world kick the ball harder? Have slightly fancier moves? He runs faster?

I guess what I'm saying is I just don't see such a huge skill jump between a mediocre pro and a star like I do with other sports. Certainly not enough to merit the God-like status that these soccer greats get. I'm sure it's just my ignorance but that's how I see it.

think of him like Kane of the Blackhawks you just know he will get the one or two chances a game to stick handle around the D on a breakaway or 2on1 and make magic happen

yeah it's the ability to dribble around the D and control the Ball

and to make the ball bend on a shot or pass

give him to much space or room and it's in the old onion bag

 

[nuckers]

I will totally admit to being a soccer idiot (by choice), but I just don't see what makes a great soccer player SO GREAT. Nothing I've seen that they do makes me go WOW like in other sports. So the Renaldo's of the world kick the ball harder? Have slightly fancier moves? He runs faster?

I guess what I'm saying is I just don't see such a huge skill jump between a mediocre pro and a star like I do with other sports. Certainly not enough to merit the God-like status that these soccer greats get. I'm sure it's just my ignorance but that's how I see it.

You need to watch him consistently to see the difference between a good pro and a great pro in soccer. There are lots of guys who can do what he does for flashes, or in certain aspects, there are guys who are good on dead balls, guys who can get their head on a ball, guys who can finish, guys who can dangle but can they do it every game. Can they put all those things together. Can they take nothing and be a threat to create something every touch of the ball. Slapshots analogy to Kane was a good one, if you watch him a game here and there he may show you a flash but you might catch Hossa have a good day and walk away thinking Hossas just as good, and while a great talent at this stage in their careers game in game out you'd rather Kane. Over the course of a season Kane is going to show you why he's a level up on Hossa now.

 

[Mr_Mark]

 

[Mr_Mark]

this guy has some great ball control

 

[HarryCaray]

You need to watch him consistently to see the difference between a good pro and a great pro in soccer. There are lots of guys who can do what he does for flashes, or in certain aspects, there are guys who are good on dead balls, guys who can get their head on a ball, guys who can finish, guys who can dangle but can they do it every game. Can they put all those things together. Can they take nothing and be a threat to create something every touch of the ball. Slapshots analogy to Kane was a good one, if you watch him a game here and there he may show you a flash but you might catch Hossa have a good day and walk away thinking Hossas just as good, and while a great talent at this stage in their careers game in game out you'd rather Kane. Over the course of a season Kane is going to show you why he's a level up on Hossa now.

OK good explanation, I can accept that.

 

[pocketrockets]

1,282 goals in 1,363 career games counting both club and country. Those numbers are almost unbelievable.

I wasn't around to see him play...but from the video I've seen, he was just way ahead of his time. Kind of like how Wilt Chamberlain scored 100 pts against 5-foot-6 stiffs, but would obviously never do that if he played in today's NBA.

Is Pele the most talented player ever? I don't think so. If you had dropped Messi or Ronaldo into the 1960s and placed them against similar competition, I think there's a fair chance you'd see similar results.

I agree 100% with this. As an avid soccer fan since the early 90's and having watched tons of classic footage.

Yes, Pele was unbelievable, best brazilian player ever? Most likely. Of the world? Could be.

Maradona, Jordi Cruyff, Di Stefano, Zidane, Platini... all worthy mentions.

Soccer is now way more physical than before in the sense that they need bigger stamina and speed, but the game is played way softer than it used to as far as physical contact goes. I blame FIFA for most of the wrongs in soccer but they also helped built the sport so, I don't focus my anger on them.

Messi and Ronaldo would destroy everyone with their speed and stamina back then BUT... they would be destroyed by the harsher physical contact and I doubt they would be able to hold the ball that much without being constantly injured!

 

[snoop]

That's a good point PR. I can't see C.Ronaldo able to deal with rough tackles of the defenders back in the 90s. The rules have changed a lot to protect the attackers. The dude dives on every contacts at will, to the extend, he is abusing the rules for his own benefits. C.Ronaldo won't last a season in Italy in the 90's. He is simply not in the same class of Pele, Di Stefano, Cruyff, Platini, Maradona, Zidane, Ronaldo (fat one) or even Messi, technically speaking he is inferior to them, mentally, he is the weakest.

 

[VIEJODINOSAUR]

He was that good. The best of his generation. Got to see him late in his career and he still had tools.

Absolutely.....he was the man back then......

 

[pocketrockets]

That's a good point PR. I can't see C.Ronaldo able to deal with rough tackles of the defenders back in the 90s. The rules have changed a lot to protect the attackers. The dude dives on every contacts at will, to the extend, he is abusing the rules for his own benefits. C.Ronaldo won't last a season in Italy in the 90's. He is simply not in the same class of Pele, Di Stefano, Cruyff, Platini, Maradona, Zidane, Ronaldo (fat one) or even Messi, technically speaking he is inferior to them, mentally, he is the weakest.

Agreed.

There's a reason why Messi is the 3rd goalscorer in Barcelona history with only 27yo. Ronaldo is the weakest mentally, you can say that twice!

 

[Ricboff]

Messi and Cristiano are both brilliant, the last 7 yrs they have been leaps above everyone else. Fun to watch, crazy skill. As for where they belong amongst the all time greats? all a matter of opinion, too early to tell. I loved watching Ronaldinho play, incredible skill!!

as for physicality/ ability to play in 'rougher' eras ? Messi is 5'7- crazy quick of course, with or without the ball. Tough. Ronaldo is 6'1, fast, agile -he'd adapt to a more physical game if need be, imo, not an issue.

Ronaldo is more selfish than Messi