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Bond prices have been strong recently, despite oil prices going up. Earnings are starting to look weak according to Wall Street. Unemployment claims are slowly creeping upward. And today the leading indicators is looking very feeble.

Is it any wonder the polls are tightening up? I don't think the economy is going to collapse, but it sure doesn't look strong to me. Lets see how Bush and his team spin this one. Oh wait the economy doesn't matter, all we are supposed to care about is security and the war on terror according to Karl Rove. Sorry about bringing up such an irrelevant subject.
 

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Wild Bill

Hard to believe isn't it. Almost without exception everything in this
country is going down the toilet. Plus, we are losing vital rights
that were once sacred. Yet, amazing as it is we still have many
average, good Americans defending these undefendable policies.
I don't believe it is any longer a debate between R and D or liberal
and conservative. Even the most radical and reactionary person can
see this country is heading for trouble. I can't explain it.

Take care and best wishes to all true patriots.
 

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Yes the world is coming to an end. You flaming liberals are truly unique. Everything is doom and gloom. Not sure where you're getting the "Wall Street" info from but here's a clue...take a look at companies like Fed Ex, UPS, Yellow/Roadway.....they are all reporting blowout numbers. What are they shipping...sex toys to the libs?
 

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When you have no facts and only bs you can always
scream those "liberals." Look it up, it isn't a curse word.
Very handy with catch phrases and hot button words,
why not for a change, really look at the facts.
Like I said this shouldn't be a war between R/D and
l/c, just for a minute forget your political allegiance
and take a realistic look at where our country is and
what the rest of the world is thinking. Please don't give
me that nonsense about who cares what they are thinking
We live in an interdependent world and everything and
everywhere matters to everybody. We are losing
friends and alliances world wide. How can we fight
terrorism when many of the world's people believe we
are the terrorists. Respect for the USA around the world
is becoming rare, and what a very sad fact for those
of us (both L and C) that love our country.
 

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I see you read Jim Cramer. A real unbiased political view isn't he. You are going to ignore the trillions of dollars invested in the bond market and only look at....shippers? The problems I am looking at are forward-looking, not backwards. Yes the shippers did great, but that is historical information. Our economy did quite well for a spurt, but I am just pointing out that many takeaways right now that look forward. The bond market is essentially projecting a slowing economy and it is being backed up by some other numbers.

And since when did reporting true economic data make someone a "flaming liberal"?
 

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Would love to see DOW under 10,000 at this time next year.......for personal reasons.
 

I'm still here Mo-fo's
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SENDITIN said:
What are they shipping...sex toys to the libs?

More likely....Economics 101 texts to all Repub's

Most likely....Pink slips to hard working Americans who have lost their jobs to the overseas' sellout of coroporate Amerika.
 

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Doom and gloom...

When Clinton ran for re-election the unemployment rate was 5.5%, I doubt WB made an issue of it then. It's 5.4% now and a big issue, which remains the lowest in the world. When Gore ran for the the Presidency in 2000 the stock market lost 30-40% in 2000, no mention of the stock crash by WB or the liberal media. How convenient Bill Doom and Gloomer.
 
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Game, I did make an issue of it back then and seriously considered the choices and voted for Dole. I don't stay on one team like some of the "sheep" that follow politics. My history is voting for Clinton, Dole, Bush, and now Kerry. Anyone that voted for Bob Dole would be hard to call a "flaming liberal" as some have done on here.
 

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WB,

How low would the unemployment rate have to be for it to be exceptible? atleast 2% of the people do not want to work. I believe full employment is probably around 3% unemployed.

How low do mortgage rates have to be to be low enough? rates are just about at a historic low. remember the carter 18% days.

Seems you're being a doom and gloomer when things are OK. Sure it would be nice for everyone to make 100K a year. Didn't happen under Clinton during the phony dotcom bubble, why expect it now. Kerry will only raise taxes and make the economy worse not better.
 

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Have I been "gloomy" about current numbers here? I am just pointing out that it appears big money in the markets is predicting the doom, I am just reading that based on simple economic facts. When all normal analysis says interest rates have to rise and the bond market is instead flattening out the yield curve, that is almost always a sign of impending slowdown. Maybe it turns out to be a recession, maybe not. It just doesn't jive with all that Bush says.

By the way, historically low interest rates have long been considered BAD news, not good by economists. It portends trouble in the future while nuturing inefficient economic actions in the present. Too much credit and liquidity is rarely good for an economy that isn't in the midst of a recession as it reduces the incentives to be prudent with economic decision making. This is simple economic theory that usually gets twisted around by this administration. I am not here to say Kerry speaks economic truth either, but I can assure anyone out there that a Dem President and a GOP Congress is an almost certain better formula for our future finances. Even GOP supporters in the media like Joe Scarborough and Pat Buchanan have admitted as much to be true, but of course party loyalty comes first and they willingly overlook the economic consequences of Bush's term.
 

bushman
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:)
Game. 1 million less payroll jobs in 4 years is a success...? :ok:


George Bush and the curse of Hoover
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/3552278.stm

btw Since 1900, the only incumbent Republican presidents to lose second-term bids have been named Hoover and Bush.

Bush must be the first 3 legged horse in history thats a lock...


http://www.usatoday.com/money/economy/employment/2004-09-03-aug_x.htm
August's unemployment rate, at 5.4%, is now the lowest since October 2001. But economists noted that the August decline in the rate, based on a survey of 60,000 households, was due partly to the fact that 152,000 people dropped out of the workforce during the month, not an encouraging sign for the economy.

The payroll figures are based on a separate, larger survey of businesses that economists generally consider more accurate than the household survey.
 
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eek,


5.4% unemployment was good enough for clinton. what's the difference now? 5.4% is the lowest in the world.

WB,

the low interest rates have made it possible for many to buy homes and move up in homes. right now it's a positive for many. you know as well as i do that raising taxes will hinder growth not expand, kerry will raise taxes. you know it's a scam to say he'll raise taxes on the rich, because we all know in the eyes of a liberal democrat the rich is if you have a job (combined income of 90K).
 

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Game,

Raising taxes is at times a necessary evil. To say the economy must never be faced with a tax increase is insane, we have been doing it for about 100 years now and seems you aren't complaining about the results. Remember the economy had no income taxes at the start of the century and when instituted they were supposed to be temporary. Our standard of living hasn't suffered, but our demands on government most certainly have. The kind of "increase" you insist will come if Kerry wins is basically a loss of the lowered rates that existed before 2002. Those didn't exactly damage the economy.

Your views on the interest rates and home ownership sound like media soundbites to me. An economy that has over-speculation in housing and real estate in general thanks to historically low rates isn't a good thing forever. It can help in a time of economic need, but that isn't the situation faced today. And how high ownership rates get isn't really a macro economic issue. To an economy all there is are "rents", not equity gains. One guy makes $100k on his house, but the buyer theoretically is losing the same amount.

What low interest rates can do is spur an economy through increased investment, but once again too much of a good thing is not a good thing. Our low interest rates are having the net effect of encouraging international investors to borrow money here and then invest it elsewhere, hence our massive trade deficits. Right now I could borrow tax-deductible money at 4.5% on a home equity loan and invest it in a no-risk CD in New Zealand for almost 6%. If anything, the NZD should appreciate over the next 12 months due to parity issues. It isn't completely a risk-free trade, but it just illustrates the gaping issue we are faced with due to our low interest rates. Taking money out of the country and then investing it in another's economy is NOT a good thing for this country.

And stop with the lie sir. 5.4% unemployment rate is not the lowest in the world. You keep trying to say that in Bush-style, as if you repeat something that isn't true enough times it will become believable. Switzerland, the Netherlands, Norway, Sweden, Ireland, Portugal, Singapore, Taiwan, Austria, and Japan are all industrialized countries with lower unemployment than the US. I know you don't seem to care about the actual truth, but it just undermines your credibility when I refer to economic facts to make my points and you just use made up stuff for yours.
 

bushman
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Its probaly uncertainty about the price of oil.

A high oil price will stuff up growth etc in no time at all.
 

Is that a moonbat in my sites?
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Come off of it WildBill - the bond market is thriving because financiers are hedging - just in case Kerry becomes President.
Four years of Bush has seen interest rates stay steady at around 6% - could the same be said for Kerry?

Watch the price of bonds fall after Bush is re-elected.
 

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