Gore might not know as much as he thinks about this climate shit

Search

New member
Joined
Mar 20, 2006
Messages
1,433
Tokens
http://www.canadafreepress.com/2006/harris061206.htm





Scientists respond to Gore's warnings of climate catastrophe

"The Inconvenient Truth" is indeed inconvenient to alarmists
By Tom Harris
Monday, June 12, 2006
"Scientists have an independent obligation to respect and present the truth as they see it," Al Gore sensibly asserts in his film "An Inconvenient Truth", showing at Cumberland 4 Cinemas in Toronto since Jun 2. With that outlook in mind, what do world climate experts actually think about the science of his movie?
Professor Bob Carter of the Marine Geophysical Laboratory at James Cook University, in Australia gives what, for many Canadians, is a surprising assessment: "Gore's circumstantial arguments are so weak that they are pathetic. It is simply incredible that they, and his film, are commanding public attention."
But surely Carter is merely part of what most people regard as a tiny cadre of "climate change skeptics" who disagree with the "vast majority of scientists" Gore cites?
No; Carter is one of hundreds of highly qualified non-governmental, non-industry, non-lobby group climate experts who contest the hypothesis that human emissions of carbon dioxide (CO2) are causing significant global climate change. "Climate experts" is the operative term here. Why? Because what Gore's "majority of scientists" think is immaterial when only a very small fraction of them actually work in the climate field.
Even among that fraction, many focus their studies on the impacts of climate change; biologists, for example, who study everything from insects to polar bears to poison ivy. "While many are highly skilled researchers, they generally do not have special knowledge about the causes of global climate change," explains former University of Winnipeg climatology professor Dr. Tim Ball. "They usually can tell us only about the effects of changes in the local environment where they conduct their studies."
This is highly valuable knowledge, but doesn't make them climate change cause experts, only climate impact experts.
So we have a smaller fraction.
But it becomes smaller still. Among experts who actually examine the causes of change on a global scale, many concentrate their research on designing and enhancing computer models of hypothetical futures. "These models have been consistently wrong in all their scenarios," asserts Ball. "Since modelers concede computer outputs are not "predictions" but are in fact merely scenarios, they are negligent in letting policy-makers and the public think they are actually making forecasts."
We should listen most to scientists who use real data to try to understand what nature is actually telling us about the causes and extent of global climate change. In this relatively small community, there is no consensus, despite what Gore and others would suggest.
Here is a small sample of the side of the debate we almost never hear:
Appearing before the Commons Committee on Environment and Sustainable Development last year, Carleton University paleoclimatologist Professor Tim Patterson testified, "There is no meaningful correlation between CO2 levels and Earth's temperature over this [geologic] time frame. In fact, when CO2 levels were over ten times higher than they are now, about 450 million years ago, the planet was in the depths of the absolute coldest period in the last half billion years." Patterson asked the committee, "On the basis of this evidence, how could anyone still believe that the recent relatively small increase in CO2 levels would be the major cause of the past century's modest warming?"
Patterson concluded his testimony by explaining what his research and "hundreds of other studies" reveal: on all time scales, there is very good correlation between Earth's temperature and natural celestial phenomena such changes in the brightness of the Sun.
Dr. Boris Winterhalter, former marine researcher at the Geological Survey of Finland and professor in marine geology, University of Helsinki, takes apart Gore's dramatic display of Antarctic glaciers collapsing into the sea. "The breaking glacier wall is a normally occurring phenomenon which is due to the normal advance of a glacier," says Winterhalter. "In Antarctica the temperature is low enough to prohibit melting of the ice front, so if the ice is grounded, it has to break off in beautiful ice cascades. If the water is deep enough icebergs will form."
Dr. Wibjörn Karlén, emeritus professor, Dept. of Physical Geography and Quaternary Geology, Stockholm University, Sweden, admits, "Some small areas in the Antarctic Peninsula have broken up recently, just like it has done back in time. The temperature in this part of Antarctica has increased recently, probably because of a small change in the position of the low pressure systems."
But Karlén clarifies that the 'mass balance' of Antarctica is positive - more snow is accumulating than melting off. As a result, Ball explains, there is an increase in the 'calving' of icebergs as the ice dome of Antarctica is growing and flowing to the oceans. When Greenland and Antarctica are assessed together, "their mass balance is considered to possibly increase the sea level by 0.03 mm/year - not much of an effect," Karlén concludes.
The Antarctica has survived warm and cold events over millions of years. A meltdown is simply not a realistic scenario in the foreseeable future.
Gore tells us in the film, "Starting in 1970, there was a precipitous drop-off in the amount and extent and thickness of the Arctic ice cap." This is misleading, according to Ball: "The survey that Gore cites was a single transect across one part of the Arctic basin in the month of October during the 1960s when we were in the middle of the cooling period. The 1990 runs were done in the warmer month of September, using a wholly different technology."
Karlén explains that a paper published in 2003 by University of Alaska professor Igor Polyakov shows that, the region of the Arctic where rising temperature is supposedly endangering polar bears showed fluctuations since 1940 but no overall temperature rise. "For several published records it is a decrease for the last 50 years," says Karlén
Dr. Dick Morgan, former advisor to the World Meteorological Organization and climatology researcher at University of Exeter, U.K. gives the details, "There has been some decrease in ice thickness in the Canadian Arctic over the past 30 years but no melt down. The Canadian Ice Service records show that from 1971-1981 there was average, to above average, ice thickness. From 1981-1982 there was a sharp decrease of 15% but there was a quick recovery to average, to slightly above average, values from 1983-1995. A sharp drop of 30% occurred again 1996-1998 and since then there has been a steady increase to reach near normal conditions since 2001."
Concerning Gore's beliefs about worldwide warming, Morgan points out that, in addition to the cooling in the NW Atlantic, massive areas of cooling are found in the North and South Pacific Ocean; the whole of the Amazon Valley; the north coast of South America and the Caribbean; the eastern Mediterranean, Black Sea, Caucasus and Red Sea; New Zealand and even the Ganges Valley in India. Morgan explains, "Had the IPCC used the standard parameter for climate change (the 30 year average) and used an equal area projection, instead of the Mercator (which doubled the area of warming in Alaska, Siberia and the Antarctic Ocean) warming and cooling would have been almost in balance."
Gore's point that 200 cities and towns in the American West set all time high temperature records is also misleading according to Dr. Roy Spencer, Principal Research Scientist at The University of Alabama in Huntsville. "It is not unusual for some locations, out of the thousands of cities and towns in the U.S., to set all-time records," he says. "The actual data shows that overall, recent temperatures in the U.S. were not unusual."
Carter does not pull his punches about Gore's activism, "The man is an embarrassment to US science and its many fine practitioners, a lot of whom know (but feel unable to state publicly) that his propaganda crusade is mostly based on junk science."
In April sixty of the world's leading experts in the field asked Prime Minister Harper to order a thorough public review of the science of climate change, something that has never happened in Canada. Considering what's at stake - either the end of civilization, if you believe Gore, or a waste of billions of dollars, if you believe his opponents - it seems like a reasonable request.
 

Militant Birther
Joined
Nov 29, 2005
Messages
11,836
Tokens
Gore has a diaper bursting at the seams with the same green algae as my 6 month old niece -- as do all the global warming alarmists.
 

New member
Joined
Jun 8, 2005
Messages
2,574
Tokens
There really is only one fact in this whole debate.

The Earth is warming. The rest is conjecture.
 

New member
Joined
Sep 21, 2004
Messages
3,443
Tokens
Forget Al Gore, I'd like to hear what JMoney has to say about the whole global warming debate.
 

New member
Joined
Mar 20, 2006
Messages
1,433
Tokens
edub69 said:
Forget Al Gore, I'd like to hear what JMoney has to say about the whole global warming debate.

Just can't let it go can you edub?
 

New member
Joined
Feb 1, 2005
Messages
7,373
Tokens
Those scientists that disagree are in the vast minority and most of them are probably funded by the carbon based energy industry.


chiefssth said:
http://www.canadafreepress.com/2006/harris061206.htm





Scientists respond to Gore's warnings of climate catastrophe

"The Inconvenient Truth" is indeed inconvenient to alarmists
By Tom Harris
Monday, June 12, 2006
"Scientists have an independent obligation to respect and present the truth as they see it," Al Gore sensibly asserts in his film "An Inconvenient Truth", showing at Cumberland 4 Cinemas in Toronto since Jun 2. With that outlook in mind, what do world climate experts actually think about the science of his movie?
Professor Bob Carter of the Marine Geophysical Laboratory at James Cook University, in Australia gives what, for many Canadians, is a surprising assessment: "Gore's circumstantial arguments are so weak that they are pathetic. It is simply incredible that they, and his film, are commanding public attention."
But surely Carter is merely part of what most people regard as a tiny cadre of "climate change skeptics" who disagree with the "vast majority of scientists" Gore cites?
No; Carter is one of hundreds of highly qualified non-governmental, non-industry, non-lobby group climate experts who contest the hypothesis that human emissions of carbon dioxide (CO2) are causing significant global climate change. "Climate experts" is the operative term here. Why? Because what Gore's "majority of scientists" think is immaterial when only a very small fraction of them actually work in the climate field.
Even among that fraction, many focus their studies on the impacts of climate change; biologists, for example, who study everything from insects to polar bears to poison ivy. "While many are highly skilled researchers, they generally do not have special knowledge about the causes of global climate change," explains former University of Winnipeg climatology professor Dr. Tim Ball. "They usually can tell us only about the effects of changes in the local environment where they conduct their studies."
This is highly valuable knowledge, but doesn't make them climate change cause experts, only climate impact experts.
So we have a smaller fraction.
But it becomes smaller still. Among experts who actually examine the causes of change on a global scale, many concentrate their research on designing and enhancing computer models of hypothetical futures. "These models have been consistently wrong in all their scenarios," asserts Ball. "Since modelers concede computer outputs are not "predictions" but are in fact merely scenarios, they are negligent in letting policy-makers and the public think they are actually making forecasts."
We should listen most to scientists who use real data to try to understand what nature is actually telling us about the causes and extent of global climate change. In this relatively small community, there is no consensus, despite what Gore and others would suggest.
Here is a small sample of the side of the debate we almost never hear:
Appearing before the Commons Committee on Environment and Sustainable Development last year, Carleton University paleoclimatologist Professor Tim Patterson testified, "There is no meaningful correlation between CO2 levels and Earth's temperature over this [geologic] time frame. In fact, when CO2 levels were over ten times higher than they are now, about 450 million years ago, the planet was in the depths of the absolute coldest period in the last half billion years." Patterson asked the committee, "On the basis of this evidence, how could anyone still believe that the recent relatively small increase in CO2 levels would be the major cause of the past century's modest warming?"
Patterson concluded his testimony by explaining what his research and "hundreds of other studies" reveal: on all time scales, there is very good correlation between Earth's temperature and natural celestial phenomena such changes in the brightness of the Sun.
Dr. Boris Winterhalter, former marine researcher at the Geological Survey of Finland and professor in marine geology, University of Helsinki, takes apart Gore's dramatic display of Antarctic glaciers collapsing into the sea. "The breaking glacier wall is a normally occurring phenomenon which is due to the normal advance of a glacier," says Winterhalter. "In Antarctica the temperature is low enough to prohibit melting of the ice front, so if the ice is grounded, it has to break off in beautiful ice cascades. If the water is deep enough icebergs will form."
Dr. Wibjörn Karlén, emeritus professor, Dept. of Physical Geography and Quaternary Geology, Stockholm University, Sweden, admits, "Some small areas in the Antarctic Peninsula have broken up recently, just like it has done back in time. The temperature in this part of Antarctica has increased recently, probably because of a small change in the position of the low pressure systems."
But Karlén clarifies that the 'mass balance' of Antarctica is positive - more snow is accumulating than melting off. As a result, Ball explains, there is an increase in the 'calving' of icebergs as the ice dome of Antarctica is growing and flowing to the oceans. When Greenland and Antarctica are assessed together, "their mass balance is considered to possibly increase the sea level by 0.03 mm/year - not much of an effect," Karlén concludes.
The Antarctica has survived warm and cold events over millions of years. A meltdown is simply not a realistic scenario in the foreseeable future.
Gore tells us in the film, "Starting in 1970, there was a precipitous drop-off in the amount and extent and thickness of the Arctic ice cap." This is misleading, according to Ball: "The survey that Gore cites was a single transect across one part of the Arctic basin in the month of October during the 1960s when we were in the middle of the cooling period. The 1990 runs were done in the warmer month of September, using a wholly different technology."
Karlén explains that a paper published in 2003 by University of Alaska professor Igor Polyakov shows that, the region of the Arctic where rising temperature is supposedly endangering polar bears showed fluctuations since 1940 but no overall temperature rise. "For several published records it is a decrease for the last 50 years," says Karlén
Dr. Dick Morgan, former advisor to the World Meteorological Organization and climatology researcher at University of Exeter, U.K. gives the details, "There has been some decrease in ice thickness in the Canadian Arctic over the past 30 years but no melt down. The Canadian Ice Service records show that from 1971-1981 there was average, to above average, ice thickness. From 1981-1982 there was a sharp decrease of 15% but there was a quick recovery to average, to slightly above average, values from 1983-1995. A sharp drop of 30% occurred again 1996-1998 and since then there has been a steady increase to reach near normal conditions since 2001."
Concerning Gore's beliefs about worldwide warming, Morgan points out that, in addition to the cooling in the NW Atlantic, massive areas of cooling are found in the North and South Pacific Ocean; the whole of the Amazon Valley; the north coast of South America and the Caribbean; the eastern Mediterranean, Black Sea, Caucasus and Red Sea; New Zealand and even the Ganges Valley in India. Morgan explains, "Had the IPCC used the standard parameter for climate change (the 30 year average) and used an equal area projection, instead of the Mercator (which doubled the area of warming in Alaska, Siberia and the Antarctic Ocean) warming and cooling would have been almost in balance."
Gore's point that 200 cities and towns in the American West set all time high temperature records is also misleading according to Dr. Roy Spencer, Principal Research Scientist at The University of Alabama in Huntsville. "It is not unusual for some locations, out of the thousands of cities and towns in the U.S., to set all-time records," he says. "The actual data shows that overall, recent temperatures in the U.S. were not unusual."
Carter does not pull his punches about Gore's activism, "The man is an embarrassment to US science and its many fine practitioners, a lot of whom know (but feel unable to state publicly) that his propaganda crusade is mostly based on junk science."
In April sixty of the world's leading experts in the field asked Prime Minister Harper to order a thorough public review of the science of climate change, something that has never happened in Canada. Considering what's at stake - either the end of civilization, if you believe Gore, or a waste of billions of dollars, if you believe his opponents - it seems like a reasonable request.
 

Militant Birther
Joined
Nov 29, 2005
Messages
11,836
Tokens
nimue77 said:
Those scientists that disagree are in the vast minority and most of them are probably funded by the carbon based energy industry.

Most of the current fear mongers have a vested interest in the 'warming' -- ie looking for grants from govts to further their research, forcing them into action hoping to grab a slice of the public pie. There's also an anti-corporate brigade looking for any excuse or backdoor scheme hoping at long last to hamstring and control the private sector. Hence, if you are socialist you believe in global warming, if you are a capitalist, you don't.
 

New member
Joined
Feb 1, 2005
Messages
7,373
Tokens
Mabye some are looking to use it for their own selfish reasons, but that doesn't make global warming any less real under any economic or political system.


Joe Contrarian said:
Most of the current fear mongers have a vested interest in the 'warming' -- ie looking for grants from govts to further their research, forcing them into action hoping to grab a slice of the public pie. There's also an anti-corporate brigade looking for any excuse or backdoor scheme hoping at long last to hamstring and control the private sector. Hence, if you are socialist you believe in global warming, if you are a capitalist, you don't.
 

I'm still here Mo-fo's
Joined
Sep 20, 2001
Messages
8,359
Tokens
Joe Contrarian said:
Most of the current fear mongers have a vested interest in the 'warming' -- ie looking for grants from govts to further their research, forcing them into action hoping to grab a slice of the public pie.

Alas, as goes the same for the neocon scientist troupe. Your side seems intent on proving what is wholly apparent to be fallacy, and strictly for political motivations.
I'm sure there you could find a few Joe Coulter neocon experts to convince us the world is still flat, for the right price

Pot/kettle/calling/black .....get it ??:nopityA:
 

Militant Birther
Joined
Nov 29, 2005
Messages
11,836
Tokens
nimue77 said:
Mabye some are looking to use it for their own selfish reasons, but that doesn't make global warming any less real under any economic or political system.

Okay, Nimue. What's your bottom line? Give us your worst! What does Al say?



That the world is going to hell in a hand basket? And that it's our fault (read: greedy corporate polluters)? And major cities will be underwear in a decade or two or three or four or five? :nopityA:

<!--[if gte vml 1]><v:shapetype id="_x0000_t75" coordsize="21600,21600" o:spt="75" o:preferrelative="t" path="m@4@5l@4@11@9@11@9@5xe" filled="f" stroked="f"> <v:stroke joinstyle="miter"/> <v:formulas> <v:f eqn="if lineDrawn pixelLineWidth 0"/> <v:f eqn="sum @0 1 0"/> <v:f eqn="sum 0 0 @1"/> <v:f eqn="prod @2 1 2"/> <v:f eqn="prod @3 21600 pixelWidth"/> <v:f eqn="prod @3 21600 pixelHeight"/> <v:f eqn="sum @0 0 1"/> <v:f eqn="prod @6 1 2"/> <v:f eqn="prod @7 21600 pixelWidth"/> <v:f eqn="sum @8 21600 0"/> <v:f eqn="prod @7 21600 pixelHeight"/> <v:f eqn="sum @10 21600 0"/> </v:formulas> <v:path o:extrusionok="f" gradientshapeok="t" o:connecttype="rect"/> <o:lock v:ext="edit" aspectratio="t"/> </v:shapetype><v:shape id="_x0000_i1025" type="#_x0000_t75" alt="" style='width:42.75pt; height:18pt'> <v:imagedata src="file:///C:\DOCUME~1\Richard\LOCALS~1\Temp\msohtml1\01\clip_image001.gif" o:href="http://forum.therx.com/images/smilies/lolBIG.gif"/> </v:shape><![endif]--><!--[if !vml]--> All these laughable doom-gloom "computer prediction models" are linear. Most climatologists will tell you weather is anything but linear -- or even predictable for that matter. Hence most climatologists do not buy into the global warming hysteria (surprise!). Only the usual socialists and tree huggers -- Al Gore, for instance -- with vested political or financial interests are sounding the alarm bells. Someone ought to keep tabs on these 'predictions' because most of these activists and their 'scientists' have a worse track record than Mark Lawrence on a bad Sunday. Here's the first clue: they had to change the bumper sticker from "global cooling" in the 70s, to "global warming" in the 80s....and now, they simply call it "global climate change." See, this way, if it rains snows, freezes, experience long droughts, violent hurricanes etc. etc...well...see? We were right! The weather she's a changin! :lolBIG:<!--[endif]-->
 

New member
Joined
Jun 8, 2005
Messages
2,574
Tokens
I guess my confusion is that EVERY planet goes through warming and cooling some much more dramtic than Earth.

Who causes that?
 

bushman
Joined
Sep 22, 2004
Messages
14,457
Tokens
Carter is one of hundreds of highly qualified non-governmental, non-industry, non-lobby group climate experts

So who does he work for ??

And I want to know what JMoney thinks about this too.:dancefool
 

Militant Birther
Joined
Nov 29, 2005
Messages
11,836
Tokens
eek. said:
So who does he work for ??

And I want to know what JMoney thinks about this too.:dancefool

eek, the only man that has been more wrong on more issues than Al Gore is Jimmy Carter. :lolBIG:
 

bushman
Joined
Sep 22, 2004
Messages
14,457
Tokens
Isn't Carter the only honest man you guys have ever had in the Whitehouse ?

A bit of a critical flaw for the job, but it was nice while it lasted.
 

New member
Joined
Mar 20, 2006
Messages
1,433
Tokens
eek. said:
Isn't Carter the only honest man you guys have ever had in the Whitehouse ?

A bit of a critical flaw for the job, but it was nice while it lasted.

Yeah and he was one of the most worthless presidents we've ever had. Go figure.
 

New member
Joined
Sep 21, 2004
Messages
3,443
Tokens
chiefssth said:
Just can't let it go can you edub?

The whole chiefs/JMoney saga is one thing about this forum that doesn't suck. It is an endless source of entertainment for me. Let me take this opportunity to say thanks.

:dancefool
 

919

Member
Joined
Jan 15, 2005
Messages
9,360
Tokens
edub69 said:
The whole chiefs/JMoney saga is one thing about this forum that doesn't suck. It is an endless source of entertainment for me. Let me take this opportunity to say thanks.

:dancefool

Which one are you thanking?
 

New member
Joined
Mar 20, 2006
Messages
1,433
Tokens
edub69 said:
The whole chiefs/JMoney saga is one thing about this forum that doesn't suck. It is an endless source of entertainment for me. Let me take this opportunity to say thanks.

:dancefool

Well considering it's been a couple months now since that whole deal, I think it's time to get over it. But your welcome for some entertainment I guess.
 

Forum statistics

Threads
1,119,858
Messages
13,574,193
Members
100,877
Latest member
businesstalkmag
The RX is the sports betting industry's leading information portal for bonuses, picks, and sportsbook reviews. Find the best deals offered by a sportsbook in your state and browse our free picks section.FacebookTwitterInstagramContact Usforum@therx.com