Fathers Day: I apologize for the sons killed by Bush ...

[docmercer--banned]

Koidog ... what are ya talking about?? "The guys on the boat put that Banner up. Read Bush's speech from that day"
The president told reporters the sign was put up by the Navy, not the White House.

"I know it was attributed somehow to some ingenious advance man from my staff -- they weren't that ingenious, by the way," the president said Tuesday.

Now his statements are being parsed even further.

Navy and administration sources said that though the banner was the Navy's idea, the White House actually made it.

Bush offered the explanation after being asked whether his speech declaring an end to major combat in Iraq under the "Mission Accomplished" banner was premature, given that U.S. casualties in Iraq since then have surpassed those before it.

 

[Marco]

"Having someone surrender is NOT an exit strategy."

So the idea of war is to plod on and shoot the enemy but not to the point where they will give up and everyone who's left can go home?

We fought the Germans and the Japs in WWII and devised strategies to force them back into a smaller territory and destroyed thier armies and equipment along the way.....force them to give up = winning = exit strategy. Generals sit around and plot moves that will end warfare, how can this not be seen as an exit strategy?

If there are no exit strategies......then this would compare to a chess match between two people proficient at the game.....neither of them are planning to win.....one of them just happens to get lucky and traps the opposing king in a corner and hollers "checkmate" like some goof yells out "bingo!" at a bingo parlor?

If you're not there to defeat the enemy then what's the point of being there?

 

[koidog]

We fought the Germans and the Japs in WWII and devised strategies to force them back into a smaller territory and destroyed thier armies and equipment along the way.....force them to give up = winning = exit strategy. Generals sit around and plot moves that will end warfare, how can this not be seen as an exit strategy?

The Generals sit around DURING the war.. there is No pre-war exit strategy. BTW, at what point in the Pacific did dropping TWO Nukes become an "exit strategy"?

The Exit stategy is the same here, beat the enemy. It does not matter that the enemies tatic here is suicide bombings, the end result is to win. That you guys declare this a loss 2 1/2 years in, with less than 2K US Lives loss if assinine.

 

[Marco]

"It does not matter that the enemy's tatic here is suicide bombings, the end result is to win."

How are you gonna win when the enemy blends into the common public? Are you going to just kill every arab in the middle east just to make sure none of them get past you?

And then kill all the people of other ethnic background in other countries who disagree with genocide?

Look at the history books and please tell us who won the guerilla wars where a nation of snipers and bombers went up against a technologically superior opponent.....

Jinn explained it better in her post about the Syrian border and the road to the Baghdad aiport and the shelling of the Green Zone....

You guys think in terms of a light bulb drawing in moths and the bulb burning thier wings up, but you guys don't realize how many moths are out there and that there's more moths than your light bulb has life.

The Repubs are even looking at the Iraq War and how much a mistake it's been.....how many billions of dollars and thousands of troops are going to die before the plug gets pulled?

The insurgents will drag this war out with thier daily adventures, and every day they keep our forces over there is millions of dollars lost that keeps eroding away at even the most staunch supporters of this war....

Can you honestly state that we can afford ten or twenty more years of doing the same $hit over there just to see tomorrow turn out like yesterday?

 

[koidog]

>Look at the history books and please tell us who won the guerilla wars where a nation of snipers and bombers went up against a technologically superior opponent

Sure how many examples you want? Israel still exists with their superior power. French Resistance tried to fight a guerilla war but was pretty much done in WW II until we landed on the beach, Poland fought their asses off and lost in 30 days and resistance was pretty much done.... really every Country Germany overtook in WW II until we arrived.

Last I knew Texas is still a part of the US, seems like our Superior power won that war.

Hell this Country Exists because superior Power beat the Indians. Certainly the Indians practiced "guerilla warfare"

Are these perfect examples? Probably not, but nor are your examples of Vietnam or Russian fighting in Afghanistan equivalent to this war.

I'd say this war is unique, You want to pigeon hole it. I believe the people of Iraq, who are fighting by our sides and fighting better in every battle will be the ones to end the resistance in Iraq.

 

[JinnRikki]

Israel still exists with their superior power.

Israel was the first to use terror as a tool in the Middle East.

Hell this Country Exists because superior Power beat the Indians. Certainly the Indians practiced "guerilla warfare"

This country exists because the colonists used guerrilla warfare against the British.

I'd say this war is unique, You want to pigeon hole it. I believe the people of Iraq, who are fighting by our sides and fighting better in every battle will be the ones to end the resistance in Iraq

I'd say these Iraqis who are fighting with the U.S. standing behind them will fall apart like a cheap suit if we leave and the country will be plunged into civil war.

 

[koidog]

>Israel was the first to use terror as a tool in the Middle East.

Surprised you think that. You want Israel gone too?


>This country exists because the colonists used guerrilla warfare against the British.

Uhmm.. were you think they learned that? From the Indians they defeated using Superior power.


>I'd say these Iraqis who are fighting with the U.S. standing behind them will fall apart like a cheap suit if we leave and the country will be plunged into civil war

You keep rooting for that, I'll hope for victory.

 

[Marco]

"I believe the people of Iraq, who are fighting by our sides and fighting better in every battle will be the ones to end the resistance in Iraq."

Pretty much what Jinn already said....

How the hell are the common Iraqis going to control the insurgents when trained military personnel as we have over there are getting shelled everyday?

They can't keep a police force together and somehow common folk are just going to put thier finger in the end of the barrel of the gun and the insurgency will be crushed?

Draaaaggg it out, spend billions more...
Draaaaggg it out, bring more dead home...
Draaaaggg it out, until the plug is pulled and we get out.
Every day will be the same until we get out.

 

[Marco]

"You keep rooting for that, I'll hope for victory."

The usual twist: If you're not a flagwaver then you must be a flagburner.

Hope is all you got because realistically speaking, you have about as good a chance of killing the insurgency in Iraq as you do sending someone to sit at the city dump on a lawn chair and killing all the flies by just swatting the ones that land nearby.:lolBIG:

 

[Coldweather]

Only solution is to drop the big one and take the middle east out of any equation. This will stop the killing of our sons and daughters. Then we take all their stuff (what is left anyway) and then we can and get the hell out.

 

[JinnRikki]

Surprised you think that. You want Israel gone too?

It's not what I think it's a fact read a history on the formation of Israel after WWII.

Uhmm.. were you think they learned that? From the Indians they defeated using Superior power.

They had little choice in the matter since they had no army as such. Please stop trying to bend history to your liking.

You keep rooting for that, I'll hope for victory.

You keep saying that, please show me were I said it. We shouldn't have been there in the first place.
You hope for victory, well how much in lives and treasure are you willing to waste in your pursuit. Few thousand more lives be good by you? How about another 300 billion will that satisfy your need for victory? And what is your idea of victory, all Arabs holding hands singing the Iraq National Anthem? The middle east to become a bastion of democracy? How much is it worth to you, will you pay another $1,000 a year to bring democracy to them. Will you give 2 years of your life to go there and fight for it. How about sending your brother or best friend is that cool with you?

 

[Marco]

"drop the big one and take the middle east out of any equation..."

And take the oil out of any equation.....

"This will stop the killing of our sons and daughters."

Certainly no one else would want to kill Americans after mass genocide of Arabs and contaminating the world's oil supply for billions of years? No more Timothy McVeighs or Unabombers out there?

"then we take all thier stuff....and get the hell out."

Lots of looting going on around Chernobyl too, since that meltdown turned that whole area into a nuclear wasteland.....

 

[JinnRikki]

Only solution is to drop the big one and take the middle east out of any equation. This will stop the killing of our sons and daughters. Then we take all their stuff (what is left anyway) and then we can and get the hell out.

Let's see if I get this straight... your idea is to drop the big one( I assume you mean a nuclear weapon) then take all their irradiated stuff. That about it right?
Great strategy I can see you've spent a lot of time considering this problem.

 

[Coldweather]

Good point. Let's take their stuff first, then drop the big one and then get the hell out!
Quickly!