Everyone loves Dubya......

[TheRightWing]

Georgians burst police lines to welcome Bush
By Paul Sims, Evening Standard
10 May 2005



Surging crowds broke through police lines in Georgia at a square where President Bush was expected to speak today.

Thousands of people poured on to Freedom Square despite strict security, with barricades smashed to the ground.

Georgia's US-educated president, Mikhail Saakashvili, said as many as 150,000 people had gathered to hear Mr Bush. Many Georgians hope his visit will increase pressure on Russia to withdraw the Soviet-era military bases it still maintains on Georgian territory and end its backing for two separatist regions.

 

[Jointpleasure]

I've got Georgia on my mind. :manwh:

I knew Bush would be good for the world even when all the naysayers on this board said that Dubya couldn't be loved.

 

[JinnRikki]

Every one loves a rabble rouser.

If a Democrat had gone into a former communist bloc country and made these claims impeachment proceedings would be his first order of business upon return.
Having successfully diminished most Democratic Presidents of the 20th century the repukes now set there sights on Roosevelt.
Shame when the only way you can look good is to tear someone else down.


Know Thy Allies
What Bush got wrong about Yalta.
By David Greenberg
Posted Tuesday, May 10, 2005, at 10:23 AM PT




<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width=1 align=left border=0><TBODY><TR><TD> </TD></TR><TR><TD>[font=arial, helvetica]Wartime's strange bedfellows

[/font]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>After World War I, the political right in Germany developed a myth called the "stab in the back" theory to explain its people's defeat. Though military leaders had helped negotiate the war's end, they fixed blame on civilian leaders—especially Jews, socialists, and liberals—for "betraying" the brave German fighting men. This nasty piece of propaganda was later picked up by Hitler and the Nazis to stoke the populist resentment that fueled their rise to power.

America has had its own "stab in the back" myths. Last year, George W. Bush endorsed a revanchist view of the Vietnam War: that our political leaders undermined our military and denied us victory. Now, on his Baltic tour, he has endorsed a similar view of the Yalta accords, that great bugaboo of the old right.

Bush stopped short of accusing Franklin D. Roosevelt and Winston Churchill of outright perfidy, but his words recalled those of hardcore FDR- and Truman-haters circa 1945. "The agreement at Yalta followed in the unjust tradition of Munich and the Molotov-Ribbentrop pact. Once again, when powerful governments negotiated, the freedom of small nations was somehow expendable. Yet this attempt to sacrifice freedom for the sake of stability left a continent divided and unstable. The captivity of millions in Central and Eastern Europe will be remembered as one of the greatest wrongs of history."

Continue Article ​

<HR class=adlink>

<!--AD BEGIN--><SCRIPT>placeAd(2,'slate.news/slate')</SCRIPT><NOSCRIPT> </NOSCRIPT><!--AD END--><!-- Ad Time:0.160293ms -->​

<HR class=adlink>

Bush's cavalier invocations of history for political purposes are not surprising. But for an American president to dredge up ugly old canards about Yalta stretches the boundaries of decency and should draw reprimands (and not only from Arthur M. Schlesinger, Jr.).

As every schoolchild should know, Roosevelt and Churchill had formed an alliance of necessity with Josef Stalin during World War II. Hardly blind to Stalin's evil, they nonetheless knew that Soviet forces were indispensable in defeating the Axis powers. "It is permitted in time of grave danger to walk with the devil until you have crossed the bridge," FDR said, quoting an old Bulgarian proverb. He and Churchill understood that Stalin would be helping to set war aims and to plan for its aftermath. Victory, after all, carried a price.

In February 1945, the "Big Three" met at a czarist resort near Yalta, in the Soviet Crimea, to continue the work begun at other summits, notably in Tehran in 1943. (Many of the alleged "betrayals" of Yalta, at least in rough form, were actually first sketched out in Tehran.) By this time, Soviet troops had conquered much of Eastern Europe from the Germans, including Romania, Bulgaria, Hungary, Poland, East Prussia, and Eastern Germany. The Western allies, meanwhile, remained on the far side of the Rhine River. Having made terrible military sacrifices to gain these positions, Stalin resolved to convert them into political payoffs.

Many of the agreements the Big Three reached at Yalta were relatively uncontroversial: The Allies decided to demand unconditional surrender from Germany, to carve up the country into four zones for its postwar occupation, and to proceed with plans to set up the United Nations.

But other issues were contentious. Asia was one. FDR wanted Stalin to enter the war against Japan, so as to obviate any need for an American invasion. In return, Stalin demanded that Russia regain dominion over various lands, notably Sakhalin and the Kurile Islands, then under Japanese control. He forswore any designs on Manchuria, which would be returned to China.

By far the knottiest problem—and the source of lingering rage among the far right afterwards—was the fate of Poland and other liberated Eastern European countries. Over several months, the Allies had been divvying up Europe according to on-the-ground military realities and their own individual national interests. The United States and Britain had denied Stalin any role in postwar Italy. Churchill and Stalin had agreed (without Roosevelt's participation) that Britain would essentially control Greece, and Russia would essentially control Romania, Bulgaria, and Hungary.

Poland was another matter. In Lublin, Poland, the Soviets had set up a government of pro-Communist Poles. Back in London, however, a pro-Western group claimed to be the true government-in-exile. Throughout the war, Stalin had acted with customary barbarity in seeking an advantage. In 1940 he ordered the slaughter of thousands of Polish army officers in the Katyn Forest, fearing their potential allegiance to the London Poles. In 1944, he stalled his own army's march into Poland to let the Germans put down the Warsaw Uprising, again to strengthen the Communists' hand.

At Yalta, Stalin wanted FDR and Churchill to recognize the Lublin government. They refused. Instead, all agreed to accept a provisional government, with a pledge to hold "free and unfettered elections" soon. For other liberated European countries, the Big Three also pledged to establish "interim governmental authorities broadly representative of all democratic elements in the population" and committed to free elections.

Roosevelt knew that Stalin might renege, and it was perhaps cynical for him to trumpet elections that might never take place. But as the historian David M. Kennedy has written, he had little choice, "unless Roosevelt was prepared to order Eisenhower to fight his way across the breadth of Germany, take on the Red Army, and drive it out of Poland at gunpoint."

Stalin, of course, never allowed elections in Poland or anywhere else. "Our hopeful assumptions were soon to be falsified," Churchill wrote. "Still, they were the only ones possible at the time." Short of starting a hot war, the West was powerless to intervene, just as it was in Hungary in 1956 or Prague in 1968.

Because FDR kept many details of the Yalta agreements under wraps, people in Washington began whispering conspiratorially about "secret agreements." Soon, critics, especially on the far right, were charging that FDR and Churchill had sold out the people of Eastern Europe—charges that Bush's recent comments echo. They asserted that the ailing Roosevelt—he would die only weeks later—had come under the malign influence of pro-Communist advisers who gave Stalin the store.

But Yalta did not give Stalin control of the Eastern European countries. He was already there. Moreover, as Lloyd C. Gardner has argued, it's possible that postwar Europe could have turned out worse than it did. For all its evident failings, Yalta did lead to a revived Western Europe, a lessening of open warfare on the continent, and, notwithstanding Bush's remarks, relative stability. Without Yalta, Gardner notes, "the uneasy equilibrium of the Cold War might have deteriorated into something much worse—a series of civil wars or possibly an even darker Orwellian condition of localized wars along an uncertain border." Such "what if" games are generally pointless, but they can remind us that the harmonious Europe that Yalta's critics tout as a counter-scenario wasn't the only alternative to the superpower standoff.

Along with the myth of FDR's treachery in leading America into war, the "stab in the back" interpretation of Yalta became a cudgel with which the old right and their McCarthyite heirs tried to discredit a president they had long despised. Renouncing Yalta even became a plank in the 1952 Republican platform, although Eisenhower did not support it. In time, however, these hoary myths receded into the shadows, dimly remembered except as a historical curiosity, where, alas, they should have remained undisturbed.



David Greenberg writes the "History Lesson" column and teaches at Rutgers University. He is the author of Nixon's Shadow: The History of an Image.

 

[docmercer--banned]

Bush has the lowest approval rating of any president at this point in his second term, according to Gallup polls going back to World War II

 

[Jointpleasure]

Geez, when are you lefties going to wake up and smell the sweet aroma of coffee, and quit being duped by 20th Century History? You need more than just that playbook to win the hearts and souls of the world. Bush is doing just fine!

 

[TheRightWing]

Bush has the lowest approval rating of any president at this point in his second term, according to Gallup polls going back to World War II

Doc as usual you need your facts checked again.....


goes back a month and Gallup is on there too for ya..

[font=Times New Roman, Times, serif][font=Times New Roman, Times, serif]RealClearPolitics Poll Average[/font]<SUP>SM</SUP>
President George W. Bush Job Approval Ratings
[/font][font=Times New Roman, Times, serif]Send This Page to a Friend[/font]

<TABLE borderColor=#ffffff cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=2 width="95%" align=center border=1><TBODY><TR borderColor=#990000 bgColor=#990000><TD width="34%" height=17>

[font=Times New Roman, Times, serif]Poll[/font]​

</TD><TD width="18%" height=17>

[font=Times New Roman, Times, serif]Date[/font]​

</TD><TD width="16%" height=17>

[font=Times New Roman, Times, serif]Approve[/font]​

</TD><TD width="15%" height=17>

[font=Times New Roman, Times, serif]Disapprove[/font]​

</TD><TD width="17%" height=17>

[font=Times New Roman, Times, serif]Spread[/font]​

</TD></TR><TR borderColor=#ffff00 bgColor=#ffff00><TD>

[font=Times New Roman, Times, serif]RCP Average[/font]​

</TD><TD>

[font=Times New Roman, Times, serif]4/25 - 5/5[/font]​

</TD><TD>

[font=Times New Roman, Times, serif]47.8%[/font]​

</TD><TD>

[font=Times New Roman, Times, serif]48.3%[/font]​

</TD><TD>

[font=Times New Roman, Times, serif]-0.5%[/font]​

</TD></TR><TR borderColor=#cccc99 bgColor=#cccc99><TD borderColor=#cccc99>

[font=Times New Roman, Times, serif]Rasmussen [/font]​

</TD><TD>

[font=Times New Roman, Times, serif]5/3 - 5/5[/font]​

</TD><TD>

[font=Times New Roman, Times, serif]49%[/font]​

</TD><TD>

[font=Times New Roman, Times, serif]50%[/font]​

</TD><TD>

[font=Times New Roman, Times, serif]-1%[/font]​

</TD></TR><TR borderColor=#cccc99 bgColor=#cccc99><TD>

[font=Times New Roman, Times, serif]AP-Ipsos [/font]​

</TD><TD>

[font=Times New Roman, Times, serif]5/2 - 5/4[/font]​

</TD><TD>

[font=Times New Roman, Times, serif]47%[/font]​

</TD><TD>

[font=Times New Roman, Times, serif]51%[/font]​

</TD><TD>

[font=Times New Roman, Times, serif]-4%[/font][font=Times New Roman, Times, serif][/font]​

</TD></TR><TR borderColor=#cccc99 bgColor=#cccc99><TD>

[font=Times New Roman, Times, serif]CNN/USA Today/Gallup [/font]​

</TD><TD>

[font=Times New Roman, Times, serif]4/29 - 5/1[/font]​

</TD><TD>

[font=Times New Roman, Times, serif]48%[/font]​

</TD><TD>

[font=Times New Roman, Times, serif]49%[/font]​

</TD><TD>

[font=Times New Roman, Times, serif]-1%[/font][font=Times New Roman, Times, serif][/font]​

</TD></TR><TR borderColor=#cccc99 bgColor=#cccc99><TD borderColor=#cccc99>

[font=Times New Roman, Times, serif]Fox News [/font]​

</TD><TD>

[font=Times New Roman, Times, serif]4/25 - 4/26[/font]​

</TD><TD>

[font=Times New Roman, Times, serif]47%[/font]​

</TD><TD>

[font=Times New Roman, Times, serif]43%[/font]​

</TD><TD>

[font=Times New Roman, Times, serif]+4%[/font][font=Times New Roman, Times, serif][/font]​

</TD></TR><TR borderColor=#ffffff bgColor=#ffffff><TD>

[font=Times New Roman, Times, serif]ABC News/Wash Post [/font]​

</TD><TD>

[font=Times New Roman, Times, serif]4/21 - 4/24[/font]​

</TD><TD>

[font=Times New Roman, Times, serif]47%[/font]​

</TD><TD>

[font=Times New Roman, Times, serif]50%[/font]​

</TD><TD>

[font=Times New Roman, Times, serif]-3%[/font][font=Times New Roman, Times, serif][/font]​

</TD></TR><TR bgColor=#ffffff><TD>

[font=Times New Roman, Times, serif]Marist [/font]​

</TD><TD>

[font=Times New Roman, Times, serif]4/18 - 4/21[/font]​

</TD><TD>

[font=Times New Roman, Times, serif]47%[/font]​

</TD><TD>

[font=Times New Roman, Times, serif]49%[/font]​

</TD><TD>

[font=Times New Roman, Times, serif]-2%[/font]​

</TD></TR><TR borderColor=#ffffff bgColor=#ffffff><TD>

[font=Times New Roman, Times, serif]Gallup [/font]​

</TD><TD>

[font=Times New Roman, Times, serif]4/18 - 4/21[/font]​

</TD><TD>

[font=Times New Roman, Times, serif]48%[/font]​

</TD><TD>

[font=Times New Roman, Times, serif]49%[/font]​

</TD><TD>

[font=Times New Roman, Times, serif]-1%[/font][font=Times New Roman, Times, serif][/font]​

</TD></TR><TR bgColor=#ffffff><TD>

[font=Times New Roman, Times, serif]Rasmussen [/font]​

</TD><TD>

[font=Times New Roman, Times, serif]4/17 - 4/19[/font]​

</TD><TD>

[font=Times New Roman, Times, serif]52%[/font]​

</TD><TD>

[font=Times New Roman, Times, serif]48%[/font]​

</TD><TD>

[font=Times New Roman, Times, serif]+4%[/font][font=Times New Roman, Times, serif][/font][font=Times New Roman, Times, serif][/font]​

</TD></TR><TR borderColor=#ffffff bgColor=#ffffff><TD>

[font=Times New Roman, Times, serif]ARG [/font]​

</TD><TD>

[font=Times New Roman, Times, serif]4/16 - 4/19[/font]​

</TD><TD>

[font=Times New Roman, Times, serif]44%[/font]​

</TD><TD>

[font=Times New Roman, Times, serif]50%[/font]​

</TD><TD>

[font=Times New Roman, Times, serif]-6%[/font]​

</TD></TR><TR borderColor=#ffffff bgColor=#ffffff><TD>

[font=Times New Roman, Times, serif]CBS News [/font]​

</TD><TD>

[font=Times New Roman, Times, serif]4/13 - 4/16[/font]​

</TD><TD>

[font=Times New Roman, Times, serif]44%[/font]​

</TD><TD>

[font=Times New Roman, Times, serif]51%[/font]​

</TD><TD>

[font=Times New Roman, Times, serif]-7%[/font]​

</TD></TR><TR borderColor=#ffffff bgColor=#ffffff><TD>

[font=Times New Roman, Times, serif]Harris** [/font]​

</TD><TD>

[font=Times New Roman, Times, serif]4/5 - 4/10[/font]​

</TD><TD>

[font=Times New Roman, Times, serif]44%[/font]​

</TD><TD>

[font=Times New Roman, Times, serif]56%[/font]​

</TD><TD>

[font=Times New Roman, Times, serif]-12%[/font][font=Times New Roman, Times, serif][/font]​

</TD></TR><TR bgColor=#ffffff><TD>

[font=Times New Roman, Times, serif]Rasmussen [/font]​

</TD><TD>

[font=Times New Roman, Times, serif]4/7 - 4/9[/font]​

</TD><TD>

[font=Times New Roman, Times, serif]46%[/font]​

</TD><TD>

[font=Times New Roman, Times, serif]53%[/font]​

</TD><TD>

[font=Times New Roman, Times, serif]-7%[/font][font=Times New Roman, Times, serif][/font]​

</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

 

[docmercer--banned]

Joint:

Fine according to whose standards? Limbaugh, Hannity, Bblight or Right Wing ....

We are in a war that is obviously now well known to have been started on fabricated information ... we have destroyed Iraq with depleted uranium, 1600 of our finest kids are dead and the Taxpayers have been shafted to the tune of 200 billion dollars?

Without this war Bush / Cheney are toast with their involvements in Enron & Halliburton .. find it funny how the Repubs who went after Clinton now find it offensive when Americans question why the stonewalling from Bush on 9-11 and now on the reports regarding the lies used to invade illegally a Muslim country .. a country that had no ties to 9-11 and nothing more than Junior in heat over getting the "man who tried to kill Daddy" back in 94 .. the same man who Cheney was against removing from power in 92

Bush is now the least popular President in the history of this country and the kid gloves by the Media over the lies, scandals and other crap like Jeff Gannon is sad ....

Keep thinking Bush is doing a super job as that is what the minority think right now

 

[Jointpleasure]

KellyAnne Fitzpatrick is one sharp pollster! WOW!! She's got to be good for the republican party. She is the hottest thing out there - very pleasant on the eyes!


The democrat female pollsters always looks drawn out, tired, unbathed, and hairy lesbian looking.

 

[Jointpleasure]

doc,

The Muslims have been shooting weapons of mass destruction at our jets patrolling the no fly zone for years right up until a couple days before we sent land troops. No fabrication was necessary for many Americans and the WMD issue was always just a political football that the demis would use to hurt some weak kneed republicans who actually would be stupid enough to try to cater to a liberals heart.

 

[JinnRikki]

doc,

The Muslims have been shooting weapons of mass destruction at our jets patrolling the no fly zone for years right up until a couple days before we sent land troops. No fabrication was necessary for many Americans and the WMD issue was always just a political football that the demis would use to hurt some weak kneed republicans who actually would be stupid enough to try to cater to a liberals heart.

Next thing we know old Zells spit balls will be considered WMD and according to Zell that's all we have.

 

[Jointpleasure]

Jinn,

If you only knew what they have/had, if you only knew... But one things is for sure, they sure as hell didn't have WMD know matter what they have/had.. typical anti-American lingo...A bullet to the back of the head is a WMD assuming you have a brain cell or two left to kill. Seems like there has been a lot of mass graves uncovered with those who may agree with me. Lots of mass graves have been found, you'de have to admit.

 

[Jointpleasure]

More lefties jsut subscribing to the evil bullet theory. latte dah!

 

[JinnRikki]

:monsters-

 

[JinnRikki]

Just Feel The Love!!

Agents Check Report of Grenade Near Bush
1 minute ago


WASHINGTON - The Secret Service was investigating a report Tuesday that a hand grenade was thrown at the stage during President Bush's speech in the former Soviet republic of Georgia.


After Bush left Georgia on Tuesday, the Secret Service was informed by Georgian authorities of a report that a device, possibly a hand grenade, had been thrown within 100 feet of the stage during Bush's speech, hit someone in the crowd and fell to the ground, Secret Service spokesman Jonathan Cherry said.

According to the report, a Georgian security officer picked up the device and removed it from the area. The Secret Service had not seen the device as of Tuesday evening, Cherry said. It has agents in Tbilisi working with the FBI, State Department and Georgian authorities to investigate the report.

Cherry said he couldn't characterize the source of the report.

Bush was returning to the United States late Tuesday after a four-country trip that also included stops in Russia, Latvia and the Netherlands. He was the first American president to visit Georgia.

 

[Marco]

Now just who could have thrown a grenade? If you listen to Red and the other Dubya lovers there are only about three people on the planet that really don't care much for the guy, and they all post on here.....giving them a fairly decent alibi.

Could there a fourth person out there?

 

[docmercer--banned]

Marco:

I confess ... it was me!

 

[Redneckman]

That's sure some funny stuff, Doc. 300,000 there to support the leader of the free world, yes FREE world, something you don't espouse, and you brag that you threw the grenade. Man, you need to grow up.

 

[docmercer--banned]

Joint:

Question for you .....

Muslims set up a no fly zone in your state and bomb away @ will ... like you wouldnt be trying to kill em?

Bush invaded this country based on obvious lies and the destruction of Iraq with depleted uranium and the large number of children and innocent civilians killed would cause me no grief if he was brought up on war crimes

 

[docmercer--banned]

Refresh my memory ....

Bush is the same fella who this thread is dedicated to that was booed at the Pope's funeral????

Yeah, what a beloved world leader ... hell, the guy is hated by over half this country and to make the claim he is loved throughout the world means some serious coke must be flowing thru someones body!!!

Right Wing - you should be a comedy writer

 

[TheRightWing]

As usual you have half the story right in the case of the pope's funeral, as they showed his face on the jumbo screen etc there were both cheers and boos just like America Doc.