Enough already....

[kayaman+]

We've all discussed this long and hard. There's been name calling insults and the works, myself, of course, guilty of that too. But I think the time for that is past. In few hours the Bush Regime will start their oil heist, that's been made clear.

I say we stop fighting here on this forum at least for one day.

This is a day for telling loved ones how we feel about them and trying to prepare ourselves mentally for the potential loss of loved ones. It's a time to curb spending in alert of probable tough economic times to come. If you live in the States it's a time to avoid going out as much as possible as the threat of terrorist attack heightens as the minutes pass. If you live abroad it's a time to lie low, to not be obviously American as anti-U.S. sentiment rises. It's a time to reminisce as America's need for anti-terrorist security makes things look more and more like a police state. The care free times many of us grew up in are now truely dead and gone. It's time to observe a moment of silence for the hundreds or thousands of civilians that will surely die in this conflict. If you are religous it's a time to pray.

War is an ugly monster that means death, maiming, destruction, rape, torture, loss and suffering. It's definately nothing to rejoice in or cheer.

No matter what your opinion on the necessity of this war, let's show a little class today.

 

[radiofreecostarica]

**** off.

lol. just kidding.

 

[froggyfred]

I hope it will be a short war.

 

[Jazz]

I agree, kaya. I'd also add that the name-calling is absolutely pointless and adds nothing to this discussion, and that continued postings of insults simply leads me not to care about anything the insulter has to say, regardless of their point of view. It's hard to exercise restraint sometimes, but insults are futile wastes of time, time which I no longer will spend reading any topic further than the first insult to the poster shows up. I've seen a lot of insults sparked by sarcastic or demeaning comments that themselves are pretty low things, so it's not just responses.

I have absolutely no interest in debating anything with people who simply want to grind (or dull) an axe, and who revert to insults of a personal nature when arguments fail them. I'm not even interested in debating the war any longer either - it's here, it's going to happen, deal with it.

 

[SAFETANA]

You deal with it! Leave us alone~!

----------------------------------------
MY BIGGEST LIES:
1- I love you!
2- The check is in the mail!
3- I wont cum in your mouth!

 

[WildBill]

Agreed except come on, live your life. Death by a terrorist is so remote a chance in a country of almost 300 million people! If you live like a hermit in response to fear then you are a flat out moron. I still maintain at the common-citizen level we are some of the biggest wimps around. The whole sniper in DC made me disgusted, people taking their children out of class, calling for the postponement of football games, saying they never venture out except to work...wimps! Sure you can say you are protecting your family, but come on if that is the case then you should never leave the house.

Put it this way, I am a LOT more afraid of drunk drivers than I ever will be about terrorists. Terrorism is a risk we just have to say is a risk of life, but NEVER let it make you live your life on their terms.

 

[kayaman+]

Wildbill,

Thanks for insulting people on the post I asked everyone to have a little class on.

Selfpreservation and protecting our young are instincts, in my opinion it's pretty low to insult people for fearing terrorists. In the height of the IRA you don't think the British feared things like shopping when department stores were blowing up every other week.

 

[dickman]

Hey Kaya man,

I 100% agree with you. Personally, I think that we should tell Saddam Hussein to go eat Japscat and Good Luck and Bye Bye!!

 

[WildBill]

I am sorry, but its true. Much of the world has lived their lives and just treated terrorists as a way of life. Look it took 5 bombings and almost 100 dead in about a week before Israelis really got fed up with it. In Spain there have been bombings for decades, yet when you go there they have done nothing to avoid them. People accept them much as they do traffic accidents.

I point this out because it goes back to the regular American opinion. We think nothing of sending heavily armed troops into another country and regardless of their precautions, they are going to kill innocent people that have no ill will for us or our army. This is a sad fact and the American attitude towards that is "well so what, at least its not in our land". I don't begrudge sending troops and I don't have an issue with that, I just have an issue with the American attitude. If we all just clam up the economy is going to go to shreds. I just remember after 9-11 how bad it was, the government was making it worse. They instill fear and then the media runs with it. Instead of telling people that terrorist acts are quite rare and take few lives relative to life's other dangers, they make it seem like a terrorist is waiting outside their door. That is terrible, no its ridiculous. We are being exposed as a nation of whimps and a nation of hypocrites. We should be a strong nation, one that tells the world that terrorists aren't going to ruin us or even change our lives. We should be told by the media reasonable steps that we can all take to protect ourselves, but we shouldn't be told to get gas masks and duct tape and stay inside because an inevitable chemical weapon is coming our way. Those that work or live in high profile cities or buildings know they are most at risk, yet they all still go to work don't they? Why can't most of us act that way and stand up to terrorists. If we have no fear, then the terrorists don't win, its as simple as that. Cautious yes, fearful no. That is what I am saying.

Amazing how many people call the French cowards, yet are too afraid to get on an airplane, especially now. You can't have it both ways, you can't make an argument for strong action and yet sit on the bench yourself paralyzed by fear.

 

[oldmantime]

I agree totally with you Wild Bill--For me personally, I have become more afraid of my own government than any terrorist. I never thought that I could feel that way in this great land. I don't agree with us going after Iraq, but I support our troop 100%!
What I find hard to support is the invasion of privacy that I feel our government is starting to make totally innocent people feel. (See my post on Internet Service Providers in the Main Forum).
Our freedoms have been eroded. I don't fear flying on an airplane-but I do FEAR getting on one--will I be strip searched!! Will I have to take my false teeth out! Where will this end!

 

I just remember after 9-11 how bad it was, the government was making it worse. They instill fear and then the media runs with it. Instead of telling people that terrorist acts are quite rare and take few lives relative to life's other dangers, they make it seem like a terrorist is waiting outside their door.

Wildbill, i ve always considered you one of the classiest posters here at the rx, with a sober opinion.

I d like to ask this with respect to your post: Do you think that the goverment and the media might have some ulterior motive and agenda in instilling fear to people?

 

The way I see it, - we didn't take this war to the terrorists, the terrorists have taken their war to the United States. Now, it's up to the USA to make sure that that the terrorists are unable to do so again - because the next time they attack, it will probably be with one or more weapons of mass destruction.
Terrorists by their very nature cannot be fought in the normal sense, so we have to go after the terrorist infrastructure - their support. Those governments and organizations that support terrorism are first on the list. Afghanistan has already been eliminated. Iraq was next - now we'll see how the rest fall into line after Iraq falls - including Iran and North Korea.
As far as the noise that's being made by a lot of anti-American rhetoricists; they are slowly being isolated and ignored - just look at the recent public polls supporting the Bush policies, the recent vote in the British Parliament supporting a war with Iraq, and even the changing French line (now they'll support the U.S. if Iraq uses weapons of mass destruction).
The United States has the right to protect itself "from all threats, foreign and domestic" - just because the anti-Bush crowd is loudly vocal about their opposition to the war doesn't mean a hill of beans.
G.W. Bush has spent months attempting to appease the U.N. crowd - to no avail - and the American citizens watching this fiasco have figured that out. Afghanistan has fallen and the governemnt there is now a democratic republic. Al Qaeda is a fading shadow of what it was. Iraq will soon fall - to be replaced by another democratic republic.
As long as there is a government or organization that supports terrorism, the United States will find and eliminate or replace them with someone less apt to support terrorism.
Who's next?

 

[ShamelessSchill]

If anyone thinks that attacking a sovereign Islamic nation is going to DECREASE terrorism, then they need their head examined!!

 

[jeffry22]

What world do you peaceniks live in that you claim war is so bad. there have always been wars and that will not change by wishing them away. the goal is to win and then change the world for the better in the aftermath

 

[PatPatriot]

Schill, so if they keep up the terrorism we should keep up the invading...The ragheads asked for this war we didn't, this will be assamas worse nightmare.

 

We are only "attacking" those nations that have supported terrorism and are posing a "clear and present danger" to the United States.

Shameless, are you saying that we shouldn't protect ourselves from aggressors and terrorist supporters - even if they're a sovereign Islamic nation?

 

[oldmantime]

The problem as I see it is :What is considered an act of terrorism"? Do we have a clear defination or is it a little fuzzy?

 

[cussin'it]

Boys, diversity of opinion is what this country is all about!! We should accept argument on all sides of an issue as being constructive to builing a sensible policy. Now having said that, I feel that for the following reasons this is a VERY risky action:
(at the same time I don't disagree with the fact that Saddam and his cronies need to go, their attrocities go undisputed)

· Iraq is contained, and is disarming. Bush deserves the credit for applying the pressure. However, time is our friend and exercising patience is in the best interest of further containment and disarmament.
· War will destroy the United Nations. Bush uses it when it serves his interests, and abandons it when it doesn’t, even though it is acting collectively in good faith to assure the compliance of its resolutions. We are about to dismiss the legitimacy of the U.N., which will only hinder the future efforts of this vital world body.
· War will destroy the relationships with our allies. We are becoming increasingly more isolated from our traditional European allies as invasion approaches. What effect will this have with the new Euro Union and our trading partners around the world? Isolation will result, politically and economically.
· War will not make us safer! This will work exactly the opposite of the only legitimate policy---the war on terrorism. This war is exactly what Al-Queda and other radical fundamentalist groups want. The result of United States aggression will produce a hundred-fold surge of new recruits into the elements that represent the real threat to us.
· War will ruin our economy. This action will contribute hundreds of billions of dollars to already near-record deficits. What will be the end cost of war and the occupation following? The Administration has not come clean with the American public on this very critical concern. Additionally, increased oil prices will send shockwaves through an already unstable economy. This combined effect will force the diversion of money from the real human needs here at home. We have billions to bribe the foreign governments that we want on board, but we must cut spending for protective services at home, educational programs, and medical care for seniors, children, and the uninsured. If this isn’t a clear case of hypocrisy and a crime against it’s own citizens then you are most certainly misguided.
· The “fog” of war is very unpredictable and will certainly lead to the deaths of many innocent Iraqi women and children, not to mention our own young men and women. To make matters worse civilians are running this war. Have we not learned the horrible lessons of Vietnam? In this Bush circle are Cheney, Rumsfeld, Rice, Rove, to name a few, none of who have ever served in the armed forces and have avoided it through questionable means. They act as though this is some kind of video game, when in reality it is far from it.
· This action promises to destabilize the region and has the potential for a proliferation of factional conflicts for years to come.

_________________________
Sure could use a trim

 

What? Cussin, I must disagree. All of those "wars" during the Clinton administration did none of the things you've mentioned - and the war in Afghanistan didn't either.
Our economy took a hit on 9-11, but it's recovering nicely.
There have been no serious terrorst attacks in the USA since 9-11 - due mainly to our aggressive posture vis a vis terrorism.
The U.N. won't be destroyed, although the security council has lost much of its influence.
War will cement our relations with our allies - remember what Charles DeGaul said, "there are no allies, only national self interests". All of world with side with the US or against the US based on what their self interests are - not what the US has done to Iraq.
Iraq is not contained - thay're working on weapons systems even as we speak - because Hussein believes that we won't interfere with a nation that has a large and varied arsenal of weapons of mass destruction,
All I hear from you is the same crap the Hollywood leftists and Democrat elitist are spewing - doom and gloom and troubles. Nothing could be further from the truth!

Thank God that people that think like you are in a shrinking minority.

 

[oldmantime]

Bush is a man of great wealth. he has never wanted for a single solitary thing in his entire life. I back him all the way as OUR President. But--I don't care for the man in the least!