Election '08.....Gore to the core.

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I've been reading all these messages on the various boards and all the post mortems in the media about "What the Dems did wrong", "What they need to do", etc. Most of the points made have been valid but we shouldn't panic.

First, Bush won with one of the smallest margins of any incumbent President in history. He got no mandate. We should not be discouraged. If not for right-wing evangelicals who came out in record numbers this year, Bush would have lost. And it is unlikely they'll come out again for any of the current leaders in GOP field (more on that later).

Second, right now the Liberal/Move On wing of the party is bThat laming the Moderate/DLC wing while the Moderate/DLC wing is blaming the Liberal/Move On wing. Nothing could be more harmful right now. There's an old saying "When Dems circle the wagons, they shoot inwards". can't happen this time. We need both wings of the party to win. And remember Kerry, a northeaster liberal, was in no way the first choice of the DLC. Lieberman, Clark, Gephardt and even Edwards were all ahead of Kerry. Nor was Kerry the first choice of the left, Dean was. So neither wing can fully be blamed.

Third, we need to educate ourselves on how the party and the party leadership really works otherwise we come off as a lunatic fringe making arguments that have no foundation in fact and thus no credibility. A while back I was discussing the DNC with someone on one board and they insisted every Dem. Representative and Senator was a member of the DNC. Nothing is further from the truth. The DNC is made up mainly of state party officials only a few Reps. and Senators are members for the DNC. If anyone is interested in how the DNC is really made up you can read about it here: http://www.democrats.org/about/function.html.

Fourth, we need to recognize there is a lot of misinformation out there in the mass-media and learn to separate fact from fiction. Nothing angers me more than seeing a pundit or columnist who trashed Gore with lies being quoted by a Gore supporter because now their trashing someone we don't like. I don't care what bad things Maureen Dowd writes about Bush, she's lost all her credibility with her attacks on Gore. Nor do I care what Bob Novak or Rush Limbaugh have to say, they are proven liars. It is just moral relativism to denounce someone when they are attacking people you like to then turn around and embrace them when they are attacking someone you don't like. The right wing propaganda machine feeds on validating people's preconceived bias and then repeating each others lies enough times that everyone thinks it's the truth. We need to look thoughtfully at who is saying what and try to verify it with trusted sources. Case in point, everyone assumes Hillary Clinton will be running in 2008 but as this article in Slate shows that has been mainly manufactured by right-wing pundits: http://slate.msn.com/id/2088758/. (More on Hillary later.)

All of the above be translated into positive action that will have impact on 2008.

The DNC - We need to find out who Gore supports for DNC chairman and back that person by calling & writing our state DNC members to support that person too. (Personally, I think Joe Trippi would be a great choice. He's shown the way on organizing grassroots support and internet fund-raising.) But my choice is unimportant, Gore's choice is critical. The DNC meets in December to choose new leadership. We all need to find out who our state representatives are ASAP and start lobbying those people.

Message - This problem is twofold. For too long we've allowed the GOP and their puppets in the media define us. Read the second item from Saturday's Daily Howler http://www.dailyhowler.com/index.shtml. That illustrates this problem better than anything else I've read recently. Conservatives knew they couldn't win the debate so they moved the game. Now it is time we moved the game back. We have to all act as truth squads combating right-wing misinformation where ever we see it. There just aren't enough Joe Conasan's and Eric Alterman's to do that. Whenever we see this misinformation in the Newspaper or on TV we need to respond immediately with emails, calls and letters to the editors. We need to build up a network of people that will spring into action whenever needed. Move On has only partially started this kind of effort. Additionally, the Democratic party needs to clearly define its message. We all saw the role 'Moral Values' played in this election. Well, tolerance is a moral value, wanting corporate accountability and fair wages to all workers is a moral value, being against the death penalty and war is a moral value, wanting good health care and an education to all children is a moral value, being for the average working man or woman over CEOs is a moral value. Even separation of church and state is a moral value, wasn't it Christ who said "Give to Caesar what is Caesar's and give to God what is God". These are issues that need to be addressed simply and in the proper context to resonate with ordinary people.

GOP Candidates in 2008 - First I think after another 4 years of GOP rule it will be a lot easier for a Dem to get elected. But we need to consider who the Republicans will most likely put up:

Jeb Bush - He's the most logical choice. He's also one of the reasons I think Cheney was made VP so there would be no heir apparent other than Jeb. But will the Christian right come out for him the way they did for his brother? I don't think so. Jeb is a converted Catholic and evangelicals don't like or trust Catholics.

Rudy Giuliani - He is also a Catholic. He's also a liberal on many issues including abortion and gay rights. Plus he tends to be a nasty candidate. While that worked in NYC it may not play as well in the heartland.

John McCain - Another moderate who won't ignite the base of the Christian right.

Rick Santorum and/or Bill Frist - Both are hardliner conservatives however both can also be perceived to be Washington insiders. However, either might work as VP to Jeb or McCain.

An unknown Republican Governor - Just as Bill Clinton and Jimmy Carter came from out of nowhere the same may happen here. Pataki of New York is spoken about but he has the same problems as Rudy.

Dem. Candidates in 2008 - Who would make the most sense?

Hillary Clinton - While she is now being called the front-runner as shown above most of that is from the right. She may have a hard re-election campaign in 2006 and may even have to pledge not to run in '08. Plus she is such a divisive figure it is unlikely she'll win any red states.

Joe Biden - Would be a great candidate and a great President. But might be tagged with the northeast liberal label and Washington insider label as well. Like Kerry he'll have a voting record in the Senate that can be twisted against him.

John Edwards - Losing VP candidates rarely come back to win the nomination next time out. Mondale was the last one and that turned out to be a disaster.

Howard Dean - Fairly or unfairly he's defined by the infamous 'Dean scream'. In the south he'll be seen as another north eastern liberal and real liberals will look at his record as Governor & see that he was way too far to the right.

An unknown Democratic Governor - Same as above. Bill Richardson has been mentioned as have Vilsack of Iowa and Easley of North Carolina. But they are all moderates who may not ignite the liberal wing of the party.

Al Gore - It has been said he was a bad candidate in 2000 but let's look at some facts:

  • He was behind Bush by double digits in the polls 18 months before the election.
  • He was seen as too moderate by many on the left who then voted for Nader.
  • He was outspent by Bush 2 to 1 overall and 3 to 1 in some key areas.
  • The media was continually hostile to him throughout the campaign.
  • He had all of Clinton's baggage to contend with.
Yet despite all that he won the popular vote and would have won the election if all the votes in Florida had been counted. Not such a bad candidate after all. Plus Gore being a founding member of the DLC along with getting his liberal 'street cred' from his association with Move On may be the only person that can unite the two wings of the party. Christian evangelicals may not see him as the enemy they see Kerry or Dean or Hillary being. Not that they'd vote for him but they may not turn out to vote against him particularly if the GOP puts up McCain or Rudy. There are many in the DNC that really wanted Gore to run this time out. They may still support him in '08. Plus there are millions of Americas that see Gore as the guy who got screwed in 2000 and would vote for him again in a heartbeat. Of course Gore has to want it.
 

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bunyon said:
I've been reading all these messages on the various boards and all the post mortems in the media about "What the Dems did wrong", "What they need to do", etc. Most of the points made have been valid but we shouldn't panic.

First, Bush won with one of the smallest margins of any incumbent President in history. He got no mandate. We should not be discouraged. If not for right-wing evangelicals who came out in record numbers this year, Bush would have lost. And it is unlikely they'll come out again for any of the current leaders in GOP field (more on that later).

Second, right now the Liberal/Move On wing of the party is bThat laming the Moderate/DLC wing while the Moderate/DLC wing is blaming the Liberal/Move On wing. Nothing could be more harmful right now. There's an old saying "When Dems circle the wagons, they shoot inwards". can't happen this time. We need both wings of the party to win. And remember Kerry, a northeaster liberal, was in no way the first choice of the DLC. Lieberman, Clark, Gephardt and even Edwards were all ahead of Kerry. Nor was Kerry the first choice of the left, Dean was. So neither wing can fully be blamed.

Third, we need to educate ourselves on how the party and the party leadership really works otherwise we come off as a lunatic fringe making arguments that have no foundation in fact and thus no credibility. A while back I was discussing the DNC with someone on one board and they insisted every Dem. Representative and Senator was a member of the DNC. Nothing is further from the truth. The DNC is made up mainly of state party officials only a few Reps. and Senators are members for the DNC. If anyone is interested in how the DNC is really made up you can read about it here: http://www.democrats.org/about/function.html.

Fourth, we need to recognize there is a lot of misinformation out there in the mass-media and learn to separate fact from fiction. Nothing angers me more than seeing a pundit or columnist who trashed Gore with lies being quoted by a Gore supporter because now their trashing someone we don't like. I don't care what bad things Maureen Dowd writes about Bush, she's lost all her credibility with her attacks on Gore. Nor do I care what Bob Novak or Rush Limbaugh have to say, they are proven liars. It is just moral relativism to denounce someone when they are attacking people you like to then turn around and embrace them when they are attacking someone you don't like. The right wing propaganda machine feeds on validating people's preconceived bias and then repeating each others lies enough times that everyone thinks it's the truth. We need to look thoughtfully at who is saying what and try to verify it with trusted sources. Case in point, everyone assumes Hillary Clinton will be running in 2008 but as this article in Slate shows that has been mainly manufactured by right-wing pundits: http://slate.msn.com/id/2088758/. (More on Hillary later.)

All of the above be translated into positive action that will have impact on 2008.

The DNC - We need to find out who Gore supports for DNC chairman and back that person by calling & writing our state DNC members to support that person too. (Personally, I think Joe Trippi would be a great choice. He's shown the way on organizing grassroots support and internet fund-raising.) But my choice is unimportant, Gore's choice is critical. The DNC meets in December to choose new leadership. We all need to find out who our state representatives are ASAP and start lobbying those people.

Message - This problem is twofold. For too long we've allowed the GOP and their puppets in the media define us. Read the second item from Saturday's Daily Howler http://www.dailyhowler.com/index.shtml. That illustrates this problem better than anything else I've read recently. Conservatives knew they couldn't win the debate so they moved the game. Now it is time we moved the game back. We have to all act as truth squads combating right-wing misinformation where ever we see it. There just aren't enough Joe Conasan's and Eric Alterman's to do that. Whenever we see this misinformation in the Newspaper or on TV we need to respond immediately with emails, calls and letters to the editors. We need to build up a network of people that will spring into action whenever needed. Move On has only partially started this kind of effort. Additionally, the Democratic party needs to clearly define its message. We all saw the role 'Moral Values' played in this election. Well, tolerance is a moral value, wanting corporate accountability and fair wages to all workers is a moral value, being against the death penalty and war is a moral value, wanting good health care and an education to all children is a moral value, being for the average working man or woman over CEOs is a moral value. Even separation of church and state is a moral value, wasn't it Christ who said "Give to Caesar what is Caesar's and give to God what is God". These are issues that need to be addressed simply and in the proper context to resonate with ordinary people.

GOP Candidates in 2008 - First I think after another 4 years of GOP rule it will be a lot easier for a Dem to get elected. But we need to consider who the Republicans will most likely put up:

Jeb Bush - He's the most logical choice. He's also one of the reasons I think Cheney was made VP so there would be no heir apparent other than Jeb. But will the Christian right come out for him the way they did for his brother? I don't think so. Jeb is a converted Catholic and evangelicals don't like or trust Catholics.

Rudy Giuliani - He is also a Catholic. He's also a liberal on many issues including abortion and gay rights. Plus he tends to be a nasty candidate. While that worked in NYC it may not play as well in the heartland.

John McCain - Another moderate who won't ignite the base of the Christian right.

Rick Santorum and/or Bill Frist - Both are hardliner conservatives however both can also be perceived to be Washington insiders. However, either might work as VP to Jeb or McCain.

An unknown Republican Governor - Just as Bill Clinton and Jimmy Carter came from out of nowhere the same may happen here. Pataki of New York is spoken about but he has the same problems as Rudy.

Dem. Candidates in 2008 - Who would make the most sense?

Hillary Clinton - While she is now being called the front-runner as shown above most of that is from the right. She may have a hard re-election campaign in 2006 and may even have to pledge not to run in '08. Plus she is such a divisive figure it is unlikely she'll win any red states.

Joe Biden - Would be a great candidate and a great President. But might be tagged with the northeast liberal label and Washington insider label as well. Like Kerry he'll have a voting record in the Senate that can be twisted against him.

John Edwards - Losing VP candidates rarely come back to win the nomination next time out. Mondale was the last one and that turned out to be a disaster.

Howard Dean - Fairly or unfairly he's defined by the infamous 'Dean scream'. In the south he'll be seen as another north eastern liberal and real liberals will look at his record as Governor & see that he was way too far to the right.

An unknown Democratic Governor - Same as above. Bill Richardson has been mentioned as have Vilsack of Iowa and Easley of North Carolina. But they are all moderates who may not ignite the liberal wing of the party.

Al Gore - It has been said he was a bad candidate in 2000 but let's look at some facts:
  • He was behind Bush by double digits in the polls 18 months before the election.
  • He was seen as too moderate by many on the left who then voted for Nader.
  • He was outspent by Bush 2 to 1 overall and 3 to 1 in some key areas.
  • The media was continually hostile to him throughout the campaign.
  • He had all of Clinton's baggage to contend with.
Yet despite all that he won the popular vote and would have won the election if all the votes in Florida had been counted. Not such a bad candidate after all. Plus Gore being a founding member of the DLC along with getting his liberal 'street cred' from his association with Move On may be the only person that can unite the two wings of the party. Christian evangelicals may not see him as the enemy they see Kerry or Dean or Hillary being. Not that they'd vote for him but they may not turn out to vote against him particularly if the GOP puts up McCain or Rudy. There are many in the DNC that really wanted Gore to run this time out. They may still support him in '08. Plus there are millions of Americas that see Gore as the guy who got screwed in 2000 and would vote for him again in a heartbeat. Of course Gore has to want it.
2008 NEXT PRESIDENT FOR SURE ( ON THE RIGHT ) ...



THERE IS NO WAY HE CAN LOOSE IF HE DECIDE TO RUN, NO WAY!!!

 

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Bill Richardson is my choice. He is exactly what the Dems need. Kerry was everything that the party regulars couldn't connect with, a rich guy, liberal record, Northeasterner. Here you have a son of immigrants, doesn't have to fake the Spanish like the others, and doesn't have the baggage of having been in US Congress. Look at how recently governors have cleaned the clocks of congress people. And as the pundits point out, you need a guy that isn't from your core area where you don't have to fight for votes, but someone who can appeal to states you normally would lose...like Clinton did. This candidate could get them back NM, AZ, NV, and possibly CO, which is alll you really need with the map as it is.

The article does make a good point, it will be hard to energize people with the candidates, but the GOP has done very well backing the candidate and no reason to think they won't do it again. Of course the biggest issue for the GOP is the demographics which clearly show Dems will gain voters if the nominal voting blocks don't change (young voters and minorities). That is exactly why I think Bush is serious about taking the moderate route this time around. It won't be long until energizing the base turns out to be a losing proposition, he needs to grow the base and then energize it.
 
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Wildbill:

Excellent !!!

I remember talking with a buddy in early 2004 talking about Richardson ..

Good man and a man I would vote for
 

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Please nominate him again!!!
 

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With this kind of thinking look for 2006 to be another sad election day for the dems in the House and Senate. It's the failed ideas, it's really that simple.
 

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Richardson would be a great candidate; a tax-cutting, pro-death penalty western governor could compete for part of the GOP base. Couple that with a Mark Warner or Harold Ford-type southerner as VP and you'll see the Dems become a national party again.

Won't happen though...no way will the left-wing radicals go with someone that moderate.
 

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VOLTITAN said:
Please nominate him again!!!



Careful what you wish for. The Dems said the same thing about Nixon after the 1960 election.
 

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The Once and Future Hope?

By Richard Cohen
Thursday, November 4, 2004; Page A25

If you set out to create the perfect Democratic presidential candidate, you would probably choose someone from the South or the border states, since John Kerry lost virtually the entire region on Tuesday, and someone who is comfortable talking the language of religion and values, since John Kerry was not, and someone whose wife is identified with conventional values, and, last, someone who took a very early position against the war in Iraq, which John Kerry did not. Such a person already exists and, as luck would have it, has a name: Al Gore.

I know, I know. It is much too early to start thinking of 2008, because we first must unite the country, confront our enemies and utter all the standard cliches. Nonsense. At a certain hour Tuesday night thoughts already turned to next time. In many of the blue states the name Hillary Clinton was uttered with frequency, and in others it was John Edwards (who has the right demographics). Not to my knowledge is anyone talking Gore -- not even, according to his friends, the man himself.

Still, you have to notice that either as a generic type of politician or a real one, Gore is what his party needs. He has relocated from Washington to Nashville, and he threw himself into the 2004 presidential campaign with commendable abandon. He endorsed Howard Dean, you will remember, but wound up campaigning for Kerry. Significantly, he was where Hillary Clinton, among others, was not -- against the war in Iraq. If the war continues, it will deepen as an issue, and Gore, as Gary Hart said about George McGovern, will be deemed "right from the start."

It is paradoxical that the Democratic Party, which is so beholden to Jews for energy, funds and ideas, has not looked into a mirror and noticed something odd. No matter how rich the Jewish community got, no matter how powerful, too, it continued to vote overwhelmingly Democratic. In other words, it voted against its economic self-interest, which would be lower taxes or, in the fantasies of Republicans, almost no taxes at all. This is the power of culture. Two, three generations out of the impoverished Eastern European ghetto, powerful and privileged beyond compare, most Jews still vote as if the Cossacks might come at any moment and the sweatshop boss might throw them out into the streets.

So it should come as no surprise that the power of culture -- the power of it to override or cancel out economic self-interest -- has become so prominent in American political life. The very fact that Ohio remained a battleground state to the end is a case in point. It had -- and has -- a weak economy. It has lost hundreds of thousands of jobs. Yet it seems that countless Ohioans did not vote their wallets but their cultural values -- 62 percent in support of an amendment banning same-sex marriage, for instance. The economy may be bad, but not so bad as the prospect of gay marriages.

From a Democratic perspective, what this country needs is a good recession. Barring that, the party needs a candidate who can be comfy talking religion and who, once that's established, can go on to talk about other things. Rep. Rahm Emanuel (D-Ill.), once a key political aide to Bill Clinton, points out that both Clinton and Jimmy Carter had that quality. Clinton coined the klutzy term "new covenant" in his first campaign -- not catchy but freighted with biblical meaning. Carter proclaimed himself a born-again Christian and, amazingly, has spent a post-White House lifetime proving it. By establishing their cultural bona fides, they were able to move on to other issues. It was "the economy, stupid" only because Clinton first hurried home from the campaign trail to preside over the execution of a cop killer -- a jackpot of a social issue.

Back in July, delegates to the Democratic National Convention were asked whom they would choose in 2008 if Kerry lost. Twenty-six percent of them said Hillary Clinton, with Edwards the runner-up at 17 percent. It is always a mistake to discount Clinton -- or to ignore her spirituality. But she is blue where she needs to be red and North where she needs to be South and still and maybe forever more associated with scandal. The Democrats know what their candidate has to look like. They can see him, or someone like him, in the rearview mirror.
 

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Bunyan:



The unknown Dem governor might turn out to be Ed Rendell of Pa. I don't say I necessarily support him but there is no denying he has some real charisma and cross-over appeal. In his gubernatorial race against Mike Fisher he actually got some major state GOP figures to endorse him(Barbara Hafer for one) and that rarely happens in Pa. where the GOP is usually united and very effective in state-wide races. For example, Democrats haven't won a Senate race for a full term here since Joe Clark in '62!
Serious dark-horse if he chooses to run.
 

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bulldog77 said:
Bunyan:



The unknown Dem governor might turn out to be Ed Rendell of Pa. I don't say I necessarily support him but there is no denying he has some real charisma and cross-over appeal. In his gubernatorial race against Mike Fisher he actually got some major state GOP figures to endorse him(Barbara Hafer for one) and that rarely happens in Pa. where the GOP is usually united and very effective in state-wide races. For example, Democrats haven't won a Senate race for a full term here since Joe Clark in '62!
Serious dark-horse if he chooses to run.

Its a long time until '08 bulldog. You could very well be right.
BTW...heres the link to the "Once and Future Hope" article.http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A23929-2004Nov3.html
 

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