Does Las Vegas know who Jay C is?

[IDENTITY]

Do Vegas insiders and Offshore insiders run in the same crowds? do they in vegas know jay's story?

 

[WildBill]

Most have heard of him and know a bit about his story, but I would say he is far less celebrated in Vegas than he is in places like this site.

 

[kosar]

'Celebrated' might be stretching it.

 

[Woody0]

'Celebrated' might be stretching it.

Well, I for one have a great deal of respect for those who stand up for their rights, particularly when they place themselves in harm's way in an attempt to bring justice.

OTOH I have nothing but disgust for certain aspects of the US judicial system that seems to be so politically motivated that one wonders not only about the separation of the Executive and the Judiciary but whether and how Justices are being bought.

 

[THE SHRINK]

I would say they know of Jay...

I believe that anyone involved in this industry who hasn't read up on Jay is clueless...

THE SHRINK

 

[sherman]

who is jay c?

 

[sherman]

guess im clueless so please fill me in.....

 

[aceduecetrey]

guess im clueless so please fill me in.....

http://www.freejaycohen.com/

 

[kosar]

Well, I for one have a great deal of respect for those who stand up for their rights, particularly when they place themselves in harm's way in an attempt to bring justice.

Well, I agree, sort of. But he wasn't 'bringing justice' of any sort. I think that when you flaunt yourself and your book on 60 minutes, have your book featured in mainstream articles and then decide to clash head-on with the US Government, you better be damn sure that you're on the right side, and there was absolutely no precedence that would suggest that. He chose to be the test case and he lost.

The government could do this to anybody. Their whole case was basically that a couple agents placed bets at WSEX and the case stuck. That's like shooting fish in a barrel. Why do you figure they chose WSEX? The other ones that they targeted around that time all revolved around offenses in the states. Jay was the only case that didn't.

So yeah, it's great that he fought for what he believed in, but he also did it for his book and for himself.

 

[JayC]

The 60 Minutes episode was long after my trial was over.

Prior to me indictment, the DOJ was widely quoted saying that offshore gambling was "out of their jurisdiction" and that "the offense hasn't been mad on US soil, there's nothing the US can do about it." One of these quotes was in Sports Illustrated in a cover article that I was featured in a month before I was charged, another was from a NY Times article a few months prior to my charges. There are several others.

The other precedence for what I was doing was the OTB operations taking phone bets from anywhere in the world operating under the exceptoin of 1084 (b), a section my jury was not allowed to see despite specifically asking for a full copy of the law.

As a side note, there was also a publicly traded company on the NASDAQ that was in the business and its board included a former majority leader of Congress who went on to become Al Gore's national campaign manager.

As to why they picked me and how it got started, I think I have tld this story several times. I will search the archives, and I post it again later.

I can't help it if the courts up until now have chosen to ignore the law and make reverse engineer result oriented opinions. I still have one last appeal left in the 2nd Circuit coming up soon. I'll be sure to keep you posted. The two main points are that 1) the government lied at trial which led to tainted jury instructions that deprived me to a right to a fair trial, and 2) the I was selectively prosecuted.

And yes, my whole case was about taking bets and setting up accounts. Two of the charges against me only involved an undercover agent opening up an account, not even betting, and that made for a substantive count. And I wasn't on one of the substantive calls.

So, for running a legal business, wholly located and operated in a sovereign nation with a license to do what I was doing, the government sent me to prison. In the meantime the Charlie Therwhangers of the world walk freely.

 

[JayC]

And I didn't ask to get indicted but of course I was going to fight it when it happened. I will defend myself by any legal means possible.

 

[kosar]

Jay, I confused the 60 Minutes timing with RS. Anyways, the 'precedence' that you cited wasn't really that, any more than the government might erroneously cite the Wire Act as precedence. The fact is that this was the first case of it's kind. *You* are the precedence now.

Don't take my posts as me thinking that you deserved it or that what you did was bad for the industry, as others over the years have. That's not the case at all and I agree that you got a raw deal, in general. It was a ridiculous case from my/our perspective and *of course* you were selectively procescuted, as they could make 150 similar cases a day if they chose to.

I also don't consider you some kind of a hero. Obviously, a life in exile didn't appeal to you, unlike Steve and Haden. I do consider it somewhat disingenious to have fought it like that, instead of pleading out like everybody else has done. The odds were heavily stacked against you from the beginning. There was no way that you could have beat them. Under those circumstances, I don't think there would have been any shame in pleading, taking your probation and going on about your life.

Obviously, it was your choice and you chose to try to be the trailblazer, but i'm not sure that rises to the level of 'hero' or 'celebrated'.

 

[JayC]

Obviously, a life in exile didn't appeal to you, unlike Steve and Haden. I do consider it somewhat disingenious to have fought it like that, instead of pleading out like everybody else has done. The odds were heavily stacked against you from the beginning. There was no way that you could have beat them. Under those circumstances, I don't think there would have been any shame in pleading, taking your probation and going on about your life.

Why should I plead guilty to something if I didn't think I did anything wrong and my lawyers are telling me I didn't do anything wrong? If I thought it was illegal I never would have gotten into the business. Why is it disingenous to fight and exercise my rights to a trial? You know back then a lot of people were telling me this is crazy, there is no way a NY jury is going to send you to prison for this. My lawyer who had just won the Peter Gatien case told me that case was an overreach on the part of t he government, your case is an even greater overreach.

To say it was a longshot is not an accurate statement. As a matter of fact prior to the jury instructions, I thought we were favored. And if it weren't for the prosecutors lying at trial, the jury instructions might not have been as bad as they were. Whatever, it doesn't matter, hindsight is 20/20. It's easy to sit here and say I never had a chance. It could have just as easily gone the other way.

As for Steve and Haden, there was never any group decision as to how we were going to fight this. Everyone made their own decisions. I didn't tell them to come back and I didn't tell them to stay. And based on the "fair" trial I got, why would either of them want to come back?

 

[WildBill]

Someday Jay we hopefully will look back on this time as a dark period of our history, much like we incredulously think there was a time having a glass of beer or wine was a crime. Your story is a sad tale of government abuse to serve a special interest or request. Someone would have to be quite hard-headed to argue you weren't selectively prosecuted.

 

[kosar]

Why should I plead guilty to something if I didn't think I did anything wrong and my lawyers are telling me I didn't do anything wrong? If I thought it was illegal I never would have gotten into the business.

Yes, your lawyers were telling you it was legal, but the government was telling you it wasn't. I don't think the final verdict on whether it is or isn't has been decided yet, but all the same, there was no precedence before you and you rolled the dice. The reason you plead is so you don't have to waste years of your life in prison on something that was a 50/50 shot, even by the most optimistic estimates.

To say it was a longshot is not an accurate statement. As a matter of fact prior to the jury instructions, I thought we were favored. And if it weren't for the prosecutors lying at trial, the jury instructions might not have been as bad as they were. Whatever, it doesn't matter, hindsight is 20/20. It's easy to sit here and say I never had a chance. It could have just as easily gone the other way.

I said it on these boards before the trial as well. I was rooting for you, but I wasn't holding out much hope. You're right, hindsight is 20/20. And saying that 'if this happened' or ' if this didn't happen' sounds like a gambler describing a losing bet.

As for Steve and Haden, there was never any group decision as to how we were going to fight this. Everyone made their own decisions. I didn't tell them to come back and I didn't tell them to stay.

I know. Don't think I said anything differently.

And based on the "fair" trial I got, why would either of them want to come back?

Exactly.