Common opponents: Alabama and Florida

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Interesting. Here's the numbers I got for the 6 common opponents between the two. The numbers are the average of the teams performance and the opponent's allowed performance:

Score:
Alabama 21.75
Florida 21.82

Yardage:
Alabama 356.5
Florida 326.4

First Downs:
Alabama 17.3
Florida 16.4

Turnovers:
Alabama 2.1
Florida 2.3

Time of possession:
Alabama 29:06
Florida 30:13

Starting to think that Alabama +10.5 is a strong bet.

The 5 times these two teams have met in the SEC championship, Florida is 3-2 out-scoring Alabama 25.6 to 25.0. All these matchups have been between 1992-1999.

Alabama has covered in their last 5 games and is undefeated ATS on the road this year. Florida as covered in their last 7 games and is undefeated ATS on the road this year.
 

CoachLT is my Obi Wan Kenobi
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Not sure where you get your numbers but I show

Points: UF 261-81, Bama 187-98
Ydg: UF 415.67/gm, Bama 366.33
 

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I'm not saying Alabama isnt the right side, but using common opponents is a big mistake. These two teams have two completely different styles. Florida is trying to score 50 points, Alabama just wants to control the clock, run the ball and win.

Their approaches are different and that is going to skew any numbers you look at including points scored, points against, yardage, etc.

People have to learn from history. You gotta start by looking at these past two years, which have been blatantly obvious: Florida in 2006 and LSU in 2007. Both teams won very tight games all year, battle tested, very good defenses, could finish for 4 quarters. But if you compared common opponents, 2006 Florida and 2007 LSU wouldn't look very good on paper.

This is a game, more than any I have seen in a long time, where you can not look at numbers. You have to analyze what you think is going to happen and it better not be because Florida scores a lot of points and Alabama doesnt. If you like Florida, it isnt because Bama isnt going to score enough points to "keep up". Its going to be because the spread attack will work vs. Bama's defense and Florida can stop the run.
 

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Box I agree in part, but looking at Ole Miss and LSU for example...I think those games are very telling in how the UF and Bama play on both sides of the ball.
 

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Im saying that it is relevant to a degree. To look at HOW alabama played against certain teams is important. Take Tennessee for example (MSU was similar as well). Bama did not play well vs Tennessee IMO. The score was 16-3 Bama with less that 5m to play in the 3Q. Bama got it's second TD of the game with 1m to go in the 3rd. The Vols defense gave Bama fits for a lot of the game, until the Vols just gave in and the score got away late. Lets remember that the Vols had already lost 4 games by this point including one to a horrid Auburn team. UF on the other hand was still playing tentative football, no one really knew what UT was after the UCLA game, and UF was winning 17-0 after 1 and Meyer retreated into scared turtle mode as he has been apt to do before this year. So who was better? Same goes for LSU. Who was better and why? I think breaking these games down is important in trying to understand HOW each team play and how successful they are in being able to impose their will on the other team.
 

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Not sure where you get your numbers but I show

Points: UF 261-81, Bama 187-98
Ydg: UF 415.67/gm, Bama 366.33

I made a big mistake in the UK-UF game (gave UK the wrong yardage number), will present corrected numbers soon.
 

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Of course looking at HOW the games played out can be important, but we're talking about statistical analysis here and the original poster is trying to make a determination on who he wants to bet because of a point difference or a yardage difference.

To me, the most telling game of the season if you want to look at common opponents, is the game you left out in your 2nd post - Ole Miss.

LSU, Tennessee, those games mean nothing to me. Those are average teams at best, different set of circumstances, different parts of the schedule, etc. Ole Miss is the only team the Gators have faced that have comparable talent and size in the trenches to Bama - both teams have a 1st rounder and a potential 3rd rounder on their O-lines, and a potential 1st rounder and potential 3rd rounder on their D-lines.

Alabama is also the most experienced team the Gators will face this year as their defense is loaded with juniors and their senior captain at safety. And their senior QB JPW, is the most experienced QB the Gators have faced this year - who is also reminiscent of Jevan Snead - has experience, doesnt light up the scoreboard but does enough to manage the game behind his massive O-line and running game. And if Florida wants to cheat up on the running game and play 8 in the box like they usually need to do to stop the run, they have Julio Jones who is 6'4" on the outside to throw jump balls to over the top, and Major Wright is horrific at ball hawking and help over the top. He is always looking to lay someone out, but he is not the kind of guy to run over to the sideline like Reggie Nelson and break up a pass play. Hopefully Ahmad Black will be doing this.

Nick Saban is the best coach the Gators have faced this season. Shannon, Fulmer, Bowden, etc don't hold a candle to the effect Saban has on his team right now.

Percy Harvin's injury is HUGE in this game. Demps, Rainey, etc too small to carry the load. Harvin is not only fast, agile, and quick, but he is very strong, makes NFL cuts, and would be deadly against any opposition - especially Bama.

Florida runs the majority of their plays right up the gut on a Tebow option read, where the back either takes it and runs between the tackles, or Tebow pulls the handoff and goes straight ahead. Needless to say, those holes were gaping vs. most teams this season. Nobody is going to move Terrence Cody, so the option read, which is arguably Florida's best offensive play - will suffer - especially with no Harvin. That one shuffle side step that Demps or Rainey will have to make to dodge Cody gives Bama defenders the additional time they need to diagnose the play and swarm to the football before Rainey/Demps goes flying through the hole untouched.

The Gators weakness of their team is their defensive line, and our line has not faced the talent, size, etc of any team on the schedule like Bama. Caldwell is a captain, a leader and a helluva blocker. He blows people off the ball right up the gut, and Andre Smith is a lock for the 1st round. With Caldwell blowing average defensive players like Marsh off the line, and Smith protecting JPW's blindside vs. an overrated Cunningham and Dunlap who haven't produced anything close to the speedy Moss/Harvey combo, Alabam should be able to convert on 3rd downs, sustain drives, and keep the Gators offense on the sideline.

You beat speed by punching it in the mouth. You dont try to run at speed, you try and run over it. There is a reason teams dont run the spread option in the NFL, and Saban, a former NFL coach with a defensive mind, knows exactly what he needs to do to stop it. Meyer has not faced Saban yet.

Some of this stuff you could say in the opposite direction: bama has not faced anyone as good as Florida, Saban hasnt faced Meyer, etc. But I give the nod to Bama because they are battle tested. They have had to play 4 quarters all year to win. They have had to find a way to win, battle adversity, and they are the ones getting no respect. NONE. All we hear is Oklahoma Florida. It's ridiculous.

If I am Bama, I want the ball first. I want to go out there, ram the ball right down the Gators throat with twin tailbacks Coffee and Ingram, on this weak D-Line, and chew up clock and punch it in for a TD. With Florida down 7-0, something they are not used to, and a 60/40 crowd in favor of Bama in the dome, and no Percy Harvin, Florida may go 3 and out 1st possession to a fired up swarming Bama defense with a lead. Ball back to Bama. Another clock chewing drive vs. a tired defense that was just on the field for 6-8 mins. And they go up 10-0 or 14-0. Now Florida, who has not been battle-tested all year because they have blown everyone out and their starters havent played 4 quarters in 8 weeks, has their backs against the wall and is suddenly playing catch up. Something they are not used to.

That is how I see this game progressing as of right now.

Hopefully I am wrong.

The key to this game for Florida is getting on the board first.

Really would lean to the under as well. Not going to make any bets on this game unless I am betting Florida and I am not betting Florida unless something major hits me in the face this week.

My 2 cents.
 
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Corrected numbers are below. Here is the totals as well to ensure the numbers are right.

Total points for
Alabama 187
Florida 261

Total points against
Alabama 108
Florida 80

Yards for
Alabama 2169
Florida 2494

Yards against
Alabama 1823
Florida 1931

First downs for
Alabama 105
Florida 132

First downs against
Alabama 90
Florida 103

Turnovers
Alabama 11
Florida 6

Takeaways
Alabama 15
Florida 14

Had the wrong cells selected in the differential, here's the correct differentials:

Score:
Alabama 22.25
Florida 30.75

Yardage:
Alabama 341.7
Florida 359.8

First Downs:
Alabama 17.3
Florida 18.5

Turnovers:
Alabama 2.1
Florida 1.8

Time of possession:
Alabama 30:26
Florida 29:34
 

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I agree with a lot of what you said Box and really I dont think we are far off - just an error in communication.

I don't think Alabama will be able to run the ball at will on UF. Will they get 150-180yds? Probably, but thats a function of running the ball 50times and throwing it just 15. That's as likely to get them into trouble as it is to generate long scoring drives. It's also quite easy to say that JPW will throw to Jones, but Jones (and the rest of the WRs) are just as apt to drop passes as they are to catch them. While Major may not be a ball hawk, he'll lay the wood to Jones and others. With Hill, Haden, Black, and Jenkins he doesn't have to be as much of a hawk.

On the flip side, Bama's defense hasn't sniffed an O like this before. I understand your point of power vs speed, but the common misinterpretation is that UF's offense is a finesse offense that can be dismantled with a brutal defense and that simply is not true...anymore. This is a TOUGH Gator squad led by a tough SOB in Tim Tebow. The Pounceys, Carl Johnson, and Trautwein have obliterated teams the last 2 months and that's not an accident. Three times this year (maybe 4 depending on timing) UF has faced a D ranked in the top 10 and absolutely crushed all of them. The counterargument is that the Os they were playing weren't that good. Fine. But 2 things - that means the same applies to Bama and that still doesnt account for having their stats get doubled up on them. South Carolina, Kentucky, Georgia, FSU - BLOWN UP. South Carolina and Bama have a very similar defense IMO. Even with 2 short fields in the first quarter, UF rolled up 120yds of O and gave the ball to the Cocks when Demps got cleaned out by Brinkley.

The interesting fact to me is not necessarily the contrasting styles of the two teams, but the fact that neither team has played another that is AS GOOD on either side of the ball. Another is that we all know that unless UF doesn't show up, Bama cannot run away and leave UF, but UF can run away and leave Bama. That means the Gators - more than likely - will be in this game until the end. But Bama does not have that same luxury.

I do disagree about LSU (and UGA) both teams were thoroughly demoralized after two brutal losses and just mailed it in. Both are better than their seasons turned out.

On Ole Miss, I didnt bring it up because I actually missed that game this year, so I have no frame of reference. Also, as we both have mentioned, this UF team is not that UF team and would beat OM by 20+ today, even as good as they are playing.

I guess in the end what Im getting at the the "qualitative" aspects of this game are more relevant and valuable to me than the "quantitative".
 

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