Clarify Evangelicals for me, please

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hangin' about
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So I'm watching CNN last night and this trailer comes on for a special they're running Sunday night on Evangelical Christianity. In this trailer, they claim that evangelicals number roughly 100 million.

Now, when I get talking about the Rapture, and those that believe in it, I never imagined I might be talking about 100 million people. That's a full third of your population.

So, either I'm using the term 'evangelical' in the wrong context and applying it to the wrong people, or there are 100 million people just south of me who might think that a nuclear confrontation in the MidEast is simply the enactment of biblical prophesy and god's will and not something that we should try to avoid.

If it is the former, I apologise now to those evangelicals who I have improperly labeled and have most likely offended. If it's the latter, I'm moving to New Zealand with Patriot.
 
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Bush is an Evangelical ...

basically follows a doctrine of "Replacement Theology" ... basically they reinterpret the Bible to suit its political goals ....

They really follow a doctrine true Christians would call Satanic in nature...

Kofi Annan also falls into the Evangelical family ...

That is why I've said many times on this board that Bush's actions with Israel are not what would be expected of a man who truely tries to follow the Bible ...

Many in this country have been fulled .. then again, many will be fooled in the days not far dewn the road when the AC uses the 10 nation EU alliance to arise to world power

 

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Well, I want to talk about the average American evangelical, not Bush. Whether Bush is truly religious, or playing it up for the camera, or believes in the Rapture or not, is all highly speculative. I happen to think his religion is sincere and I'm not sure about his views on this Rapture business.

What I want to know is: do 100 million Americans believe that the end of the world will happen once Israel is secure, the 7-year peace deal with Israel is prematurely shortened by the anti-Christ, and upon Christ's return? Do 100 million Americans believe that all the chosen Christians will join god and watch as all the Muslims are eaten by frogs and locusts for 7 years after which the Jews will be given a chance to convert or submit to the same fate? Could 100 million people from an educated country actually believe in this?

Doc, I just re-read your post ... you refer to the AC; is this the anti-Christ? Do you believe in this stuff?? You're Catholic, as well, aren't you? I know my church never talked about this kind of stuff ...
 

bushman
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The average evangelical...
images

:nuts: :CUSSING: :confused:
:mad: :nono5: :uzi:
 
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Xpanda:

To me what one does is more important than what they believe ... if one believes in the Bible and Biblical prophecy that is a choice one makes

I do know this: we are watching a lot of events unfolding right now that could be interrupted as events foretold by Daniel over 2000 yrs ago ....
 

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Between the Jews, the Christians and the Muslims there are plenty of apocalyptic writings that are, remarkably, all very similar. What we are witnessing right now could be attributed to some kind of prophecy, or could be attributed to multiple segments of people believing in prophecy and enacting a play they've written. ALL of them centre their fight around the reclaiming of Israel in general, and the Temple of the Mount, specifically. Imagine the fight if the Palestinians insisted on Arafat being buried there!

[Incidentally, Nostradamus, a false prophet by most diehard Christian standards I would think, prophesied his third anti-Christ as coming from the ME, and having the name Mabus. He's well noted for getting names more or less right, if you're open to such suggestion. Yesterday, Mahmoud Abbas was named the new Palestinian leader.]
 

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What is happening is nothing more than a mob mentality. The feel good atmosphere of these false churches is absolutely intoxicating. Pleasant fragrances and rock music often set the stage for some insidious practices. Don't ask me how I know. Just leave it that I do.

The false evangelicals are one family of sheep that is encouraged to have nothing to do with "non-Christians" except to convert them. The pastor has absolute power and is not to be questioned especially in the creation of an "us" and "them" mentality. Many of the sheep are very relieved that they have been forgiven their sins no matter how dastardly those sins may have been and quite pleased that they will be forgiven when they commit them in the future also. Most are in desparate straights in their lives and believe me they eagerly await going home. Home as in poof I fly right out of here. The post tribulation teachers that teach having to go through the tribulation before flight time are no longer taken seriously. That scenario would be too messy.

And so Christian leaders spanning the spiritual spectrum proclaim that we are in the greatest revival in human history. Surely Xpanda must be aware of the "great" Vineyard revival several years ago based in Toronto. In their haste to embrace this great awakening multitudes are instead becoming ensnared in great apostasy.

Thousands testify to experiencing powerful psychological and physical manifestations. These experiences are so "real" that many evangelical leaders are convinced that they cannot be explained apart from the power and prescence of the Holy Spirit.

This appeal is staggering. Churches invite their people to "experience" God in a brand new way. The form and function of the church is being radically rearranged. Sanctuaries are littered with bodies as supplicants sob, shake, roar like lions and strangest of all laugh uncontrollably.

As the false leaders of this false revival employ socio-psychological manipulation tactics, their subjects are trapped in a dangerous web of subjectivism. Once this epidemic contaminates a movement, it can make black appear white, obscure realities, and enshrine absurdities such as George W. Bush being a true man of God. In full force it strikes intellectuals as well as the ignorant, rich, and poor alike.

Pagan religions and psuedo-Christian cults have long capitalized on slight of hand and slight of mind to promote their practices. This BTW, is all Biblical prophecy as well.
 

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If it's the latter, I'm moving to New Zealand with Patriot.<!-- / message -->
Yes,we will find our adventure there...I can see it now it will be morden day version of Humphry Bogart and Katherine Hepburn in the classic "African Queen".

Although we have opposite points of view on some things.I am certain we will find satisfaction in the "middle";) .
.....come to think of it I hope they "Praise the lord, and pass the ammunition!"

...lets see two pairs of sneakers 5 pairs of shorts..
 

Is that a moonbat in my sites?
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An evangelical is a "born again" Christian.

the definition of born again is different for different people - all that it means at it's rioots is that, in finding a belief in Christ, you've renewed your faith and have been born agin.

Evangelicals live all over the Americas - in Canada also - and are just your every day people who try to live their lives by the ten commandments. They recognize that people are good and strive to be good to all people. They also recognize that evil does live, and cannot be tolerated.

Evangelicals tend to be very productive and very middle class, since a tenet of their judeo-Christion belief is that God helps those who help themselves.

They do believe in those traditional values that are put forth in the Ten Commandments and the King James version of the Bible.

Thjey are not usually the fire breathing fanatics that the left would have you think they are.

Generally speaking, you would want to live in the same neighborhood and have your children playing with the children of Evangelicals. Their good, solid people.
 

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bblight said:
Thjey are not usually the fire breathing fanatics that the left would have you think they are.

Generally speaking, you would want to live in the same neighborhood and have your children playing with the children of Evangelicals. Their good, solid people.

I'd like to straighten something out, here. Nobody on the 'left' has had any influence on my personal religious beliefs or my current views on those that believe in the Rapture. Regarding the former, I was raised Catholic and have rejected that faith slowly over the course of my life. My family is Catholic, all of my friends were (many still are) Catholic. My views are my own based on my own personal experiences and vantage points. I now consider myself to be atheist for all intents and purposes, though not to be confused with anti-theist.

Secondly, when reviewing the Rapture followers, I base my views entirely on what I read them say. I read an article on the Rapture about a year ago and, frankly, I was rather amused by the whole thing. Seemed silly and hocus-pocus-like so I kinda dismissed it as a tinfoil hat conspiracy thing about religious people. But, out of curiosity, I googled it.

I was taken to a message board where a member had posted the exact same article I had read. Instead of rebutting the story in its entirety, the poster instead objected to the fact that the author had said that the raptured would fly out of their clothes and sit naked at the right side of god. Naked?!?! cried the poster, Bah! We won't be naked, we'll be in our Robes of Righteousness!

This message board had approximately 400 people on it at that moment so I realised immediately this was an actual movement. I was a little freaked out by this, especially in light of the fact that Bush appears to be aligned with them.

But, if there are 100 million people in the United States who believe that a gog-magog standoff is part of god's plan, we're doomed. Who cares about global warming if we're all dead in twenty years anyway? Who cares if Israel nukes Iran ... in fact, let's all get excited by this! It means Jesus is coming!

Is this belief standard for evangelicals? Or is their a particular faction, with a name, who subscribe to this? Do 1/3 of Americans believe that the end of the world is upon us? Does their leader?
 

Is that a moonbat in my sites?
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Jesus, what's the matter with you xpanda - you sound like Doc.

Do you have a Presbyterinan church near you? A Congregational Church? A Methidist Church? A Baptist Church?

These are the people you're talking about. Some are more liberalized in their thinking and some are more of the fire breasthing variety!

They're not fanatics! They have a set of strong core values that aren't in line with the liberal mindset. They can be very pragmatic. Generally speaking, they're regular people.

They believe that a marriage consists of a man and a woman for the purpose of procreation and family rearing - They don't believe that homosexuality is evil, but they do consider it to be a sexual aberation.

Most of them are against abortion - it's murder to them - they don't consider the woman getting an abortion to be evil - just sinful.

These people recognize that other people have different beliefs and core values - they believe in live and let live.

Remember that there are fringe elements in every group - those extremist fanatics who are very vocal in their recriminations. The liberals have them, and the Evangelicals have them.
 

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There is a distinction between being a religious nut and believing in the teachings of Jesus Christ.

Although I am not a religious guy.I am a Jesus guy.
 

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According to the following article, they are premillenialists and they represent about 15% of the US population. That's not 100 million, at least, but 44 million people (1.5 times the population of my entire country) backing this movement is decidedly bent.

Patriot, pack your bags. You and I are going on a little trip.

Push for holy war an issue left in silence

ArchiveBy MARTIN DYCKMAN, Times Columnist
Published October 10, 2004
------------------------------------------------------------------------

TALLAHASSEE - One of the most urgent but least discussed issues of the presidential campaign is the extreme religious agenda that appears to be distorting U.S. policy toward Israel, to the peril of both nations.

The force in question is the Christian fundamentalist movement most commonly known as premillennialism. It prophesies that Jesus will return and true believers will be whisked bodily to heaven, minus their clothes and jewelery, upon the fulfillment of certain conditions familiar to readers of the popular Left Behind books. These include the creation of the state of Israel, Israel's occupation of all of its "biblical lands," and the construction of a Third Temple on the Temple Mount, currently the site of the Dome of the Rock and the Al-Aqsa mosques.

The first is fact. The second goes so far beyond the disputed West Bank and Gaza that not even Israel aspires to it. The third, which contemplates the desecration of one of Islam's holiest places, would set off a nuclear war (think Pakistan and Iran) with infinitely more certainty than anything predicted in the Book of Revelation. A simple visit by Ariel Sharon to the Temple Mount four years ago was enough to bring on the current intifada that by one estimate has claimed nearly 4,000 lives and made Sharon prime minister.

But to the millennialists, a holy war in the Middle East would be good news, not bad, because it would be the war leading to Armageddon. As for the Iraqi war, it's a prophecy fulfilled.

As Bill Moyers remarked in a speech last month, "A war with Islam in the Middle East is not something to be feared but welcomed. If there's a conflagration there, they come out winners on the far side of tribulation, inside the pearly gates, in celestial splendor, supping on ambrosia to the accompaniment of harps plucked by angels."

The present danger is not so much that people making U.S. policy believe these end-times prophecies, as some do, to the extent that they would deliberately try to fulfill them. But the White House is clearly so sensitive to voters who believe them that it has bent policy to their will, most recently by endorsing the expansion of Israeli settlements in the West Bank.


Yet this has gone unmentioned in the debates so far and remains largely unnoticed in the mainstream American press despite Moyers' eloquent warning in a speech last month to the Society of Professional Journalists.

Moyers, an ordained clergyman who knows as much as anyone about the interaction of religion and politics, said the millennialists amount to only 15 percent of the electorate but most are Republican, and that Bush "knows who they are and what they want." When Bush asked Sharon to withdraw tanks from Jenin two years ago, Moyers said, more than 100,000 fundamentalist e-mails hit the White House and Bush said nothing more about it. The West Bank concession, reversing decades of sensible U.S. policy, was another manifestation.

"No wonder Karl Rove walks around the west wing whistling Onward Christian Soldiers," Moyers said. "He knows how many votes he is likely to get from these pious folk who believe that the Rapture Index now stands at 144 - just one point below the critical threshhold at which point the prophecy is fulfilled, the whole thing blows, the sky is filled with floating naked bodies, and the true believers wind up at the right hand of God."

Israel is nothing more than a means to an end for the millennialists. In their eschatology, Jews who don't convert when Jesus returns face as grotesque a fate as anything the Inquisition ever invented.

With friends like those, Israel doesn't need enemies. What it needs from its real friends, including the United States, is the tough love that compels it to get out of Gaza and the whole West Bank. Having done that, Israel could build a security fence entirely on its own territory and no one would be entitled to complain.

I do not pretend that such compromise would immediately reconcile Saudia Arabia and Iran, or any of their terrorist client groups, to the perpetual existence of the state of Israel. But it would give Israel the moral high ground once again and eliminate the pious pretexts for the overtly anti-Israeli and subtly anti-Semitic expressions of many Western governments and nongovernmental organizations.

(snip)

http://www.sptimes.com/2004/10/10/Columns/Push_for_holy_war_an_.shtml
 
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bblight:

They may be "reborn" again but do not follow the teachings in the Bible .. the re-interpret for their own political gain

Explains Bush's actions with Israel and forcing them to give up land ...
 

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bblight said:
Jesus, what's the matter with you xpanda - you sound like Doc .. Do you have a Presbyterinan church near you? A Congregational Church? A Methidist Church? A Baptist Church?

These are the people you're talking about. Some are more liberalized in their thinking and some are more of the fire breasthing variety!

They're not fanatics! They have a set of strong core values that aren't in line with the liberal mindset. They can be very pragmatic. Generally speaking, they're regular people.

BBlight: please read what I write with greater care. I specifically stated in my OP that I didn't know if the Rapture nutters and the Evangelicals were one and the same. I am specifically concerned about how many people believe in the End Times. I don't give a crap what they think about birth control or premarital sex or any of that. This thread is very specifically about the fringe on the Religious Right who believe that the end of the world is upon us, not the everyday Christian.

Edited to add: my uncle, a Roman Catholic Priest; a close friend of mine, a minister with the United Church. I am NOT afraid of Christians. Just end-of-the-world doomsdayers with the ammunition to make it happen.
 
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Patriot:

Well said ...

The Bible warns against carving up the land given to the Jews ...

This country kills me .. Bush (as well as Clinton, bblight!!) will not negotiate with terrorists but have no problems with Israel giving up land captured in wars so the Arabs (aka Palestinians) can set up a state right next door .. a state which will be nothing more than a closer launching state for terrorist acts .. trust me, this new leadership is no difft than Arafat in their goal of complete destruction of Israel

Bush needs to back off ... for the good of this country
 

bushman
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doc mercer said:
Patriot:

Well said ...

The Bible warns against carving up the land given to the Jews ...

This country kills me .. Bush (as well as Clinton, bblight!!) will not negotiate with terrorists but have no problems with Israel giving up land captured in wars so the Arabs (aka Palestinians) can set up a state right next door .. a state which will be nothing more than a closer launching state for terrorist acts .. trust me, this new leadership is no difft than Arafat in their goal of complete destruction of Israel

Bush needs to back off ... for the good of this country

What do you propose happens to the Palestinians? Screw 'em, I guess??

Further, why should the Bible dictate foreign policy over common sense and human compassion? What makes you think the Bible wasn't written by a bunch of men (and probably women, too ... Luke) high on opium at the time?
 
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Xpanda:

Israel has attempted the ol land for peace gig and it does not work ... not with a society taught to kill Jews and has one goal: complete destruction of the Jewish state

The Arab countries should take the Palestinians back in since that is what they are in reality anyway ...

Peace is not coming .. full blown war is right around the corner
 

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