"Chickenhawk" theory from the left....

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TheRightWing

TheRightWing

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Who is qualified to speak on matters of national security? According to the American left, only pacifists, military members who have served in combat and direct relatives of those slain in combat or in acts of terrorism. The rest of us -- about 80 percent of voters -- must simply sit by silently. Our opinions do not matter. You want disenfranchisement? Talk to the political left, which seeks to exclude the vast majority of the American populace from the national debate about foreign policy.
The bulk of the left in this country refuses to argue about foreign policy rationally, without resorting to ad hominem attack. The favored ad hominem attack of the left these days is "chickenhawk." The argument goes something like this: If you believe in any of the wars America is currently fighting, you must join the military. If you do not, you must shut up. If, on the other hand, you believe that America should disengage from all foreign wars, you may feel free not to serve in the military.

This is the argument made by hate-America radicals like Michael Moore, who defines "chickenhawk" on his website thus: "A person enthusiastic about war, provided someone else fights it; particularly when that enthusiasm is undimmed by personal experience with war; most emphatically when that lack of experience came in spite of ample opportunity in that person's youth." The "chickenhawk" argument was the implicit centerpiece of John Kerry's presidential campaign -- Kerry hyped his military service and denigrated George W. Bush's military service, all the while focusing on the fact that he, unlike President Bush, was anti-war. Kerry's campaign underling, Sen. Frank Lautenberg, made the argument explicit during April 2004: "They shriek like a hawk, but they have the backbone of the chicken," he said of the Bush Administration. "The lead chickenhawk against Sen. Kerry [is] the vice president of the United States, Vice President Cheney." Not coincidentally, Lautenberg utilized Moore's exact "chickenhawk" definition in making his point.

The "chickenhawk" argument is dishonest. It is dishonest because the principle of republicanism is based on freedom of choice about behavior (as long as that behavior is legal) as well as freedom of speech about political issues. We constantly vote on activities with which we may or may not be intimately involved. We vote on police policy, though few of us are policemen; we vote on welfare policy, though few of us either work in the welfare bureaucracy or have been on welfare; we vote on tax policy, even if some of us don't pay taxes. The list goes on and on. Representative democracy necessarily means that millions of us vote on issues with which we have had little practical experience. The "chickenhawk" argument -- which states that if you haven't served in the military, you can't have an opinion on foreign policy -- explicitly rejects basic principles of representative democracy.

The "chickenhawk" argument also explicitly rejects the Constitution itself. The Constitution provides that civilians control the military. The president of the United States is commander-in-chief, whether or not he has served in the military. Congress controls the purse strings and declares war, no matter whether any of its members have served in the military or not. For foreign policy doves to high-handedly declare that military service is a prerequisite to a hawkish foreign policy mindset is not only dangerous, but directly conflicts with the Constitution itself.

The "chickenhawk" argument proves only one point: The left is incapable of discussing foreign policy in a rational manner. They must resort to purely emotional, base personal attacks in order to forward their agenda. And so, unable or unwilling to counter the arguments of those like Paul Wolfowitz, Dick Cheney and President Bush, they label them all "chickenhawks." By the leftist logic, here are some other "chickenhawks": John Adams, Benjamin Franklin, Thomas Jefferson, John Hancock, James Madison, Abraham Lincoln, Woodrow Wilson and Bill Clinton.

American soldiers fight for the right of all Americans, regardless of race, class or past service, to speak out on foreign policy issues. If they fight for the right of pacifist anti-military fifth columnists like Michael Moore to denigrate their honor, they certainly fight for the right of civilian hawks to speak up in favor of the highest level of moral and material support for their heroism.
 
docmercer--banned

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Anyone that has served this country is to honored ...

to see Chickenhawks like Cheney disgrace our Vets is a flappin joke
 
TheRightWing

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well thank you Doc for those kind words!! I served from 88-93 so I do thank you for honoring me in your special way.
 
docmercer--banned

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Right Wing: if that is true ... Thanks

I never served and will slam a vet .... the treatment our guys recevd coming back from Vietnam was a disgrace ...

we have kids sick and cant get the proper medical treatments from their stints in the Iraq and Gulf wars?????

Bush would not listen to advice from the Generals ... he needs to be held accountable for his actions as our kids deserve better
 
JinnRikki

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Odd 88-93, according to one of your other posts would make you a high school student putting pictures of Clinton on a wall. How do you account for this strange juxtaposition, an alternate universe maybe?
And if you did a 4 year hitch which branch? I didn't now the Army offered 4 year options.
 

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Amazing to me that RightWing would post an article as his own (since he posted it in 2 threads and each time never cited the source)

Stating in it:

Who is qualified to speak on matters of national security? According to the American left, only pacifists, military members who have served in combat and direct relatives of those slain in combat or in acts of terrorism. The rest of us -- about 80 percent of voters -- must simply sit by silently

Yet now he says he served. What is this "rest of us" you refer to since you obviously penned the speech RW?
 
TheRightWing

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JinnRikki said:
Odd 88-93, according to one of your other posts would make you a high school student putting pictures of Clinton on a wall. How do you account for this strange juxtaposition, an alternate universe maybe?
And if you did a 4 year hitch which branch? I didn't now the Army offered 4 year options.

whistlenuts as my following post to eek or 919 was it's a joke but you failed to mention that one mr I have a DD214 haha yeah that's real I'm sure.
 

docmercer

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My point is very simple. You're the king of posting entire articles, including the actual source/author.

Yet you post this article TWICE no less, and both times feel the need to remove the source/author. Under the guise of being your own work/thoughts - you go after "the left" and target it towards others on the board who don't share your version of reality.

The currency of intellect is intelligent independant thought, you've been exposed as being overdrawn.
 
TheRightWing

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ktvvegas said:
Amazing to me that RightWing would post an article as his own (since he posted it in 2 threads and each time never cited the source)

Stating in it:

Who is qualified to speak on matters of national security? According to the American left, only pacifists, military members who have served in combat and direct relatives of those slain in combat or in acts of terrorism. The rest of us -- about 80 percent of voters -- must simply sit by silently

Yet now he says he served. What is this "rest of us" you refer to since you obviously penned the speech RW?

probably Americans that grew up in Canada that may of traveled but still call themselves Americans .....who know's but could you be one of them???
 
TheRightWing

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ktvvegas said:
My point is very simple. You're the king of posting entire articles, including the actual source/author.

Yet you post this article TWICE no less, and both times feel the need to remove the source/author. Under the guise of being your own work/thoughts - you go after "the left" and target it towards others on the board who don't share your version of reality.

The currency of intellect is intelligent independant thought, you've been exposed as being overdrawn.

I removed the source???? How did I remove the source , I drag the story cut and paste but what's up with removing it???? You mean I didn't include it????? And can you tell me how that changes this article???????
 

docmercer

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I am indeed. I'll check with others who grew up with a military father (or in my case military father and mother) and ask them if they consider themselves American because of where they were raised.

I knew there was a reason you asked where I grew up --- the last bastion of the desperate pretend patriot.

You just accidently cut/paste and removed the author. With other articles you include photos/links etc -- but just not this one right? Fraud
 
TheRightWing

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you wanted his photo too???? Why???? You still haven't told me how this changes this article????
 

docmercer

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Doesn't change HIS article - but it sure makes you look bad (granted, a daily occurance in here - but even for you it was early today)

Very strange that someone who says they have served would copy/paste an entire article defending those who trumpet war but refused to serve. Especially when the article was written in the first person and pasted in as your own.

But you go ahead - say you accidently copy/pasted it twice under impression that for 2 seconds you suddenly forgot how to include the source etc.

Overcast or not - the sky must be a very different color in your world.
 
bblight

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Doc Mullah is right (finally!).

Returning Vietnam vets were often treated as parriahs and the left still likes to label them as borderline psychos.

I see that Doc et al like to look at the military records of George and Dick while studiously ignoring the records of oppostion members such as Bill and Teddy.

Present day soldiers also don't get what they deserve in pay, benefits and equipment; both Dems and Repubs are equally guilty for such a disgrace.

Meanwhile, the left wing media focus on the wailing of a distraught mother while ignoring the fact that her son re-enlisted to return to the war.

Unlike Vietnam where many draft age young men were given a choice to flee the country, go to jail, or go to war, the soldiers in Iraq have chosen the military of their own free will.

These modern heros should be given the best equipment that we can proviide, while the media shpould focus on the broad spectrum of the war, rather than their own, narrow anti-war version of the facts.
 
TheRightWing

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ktvvegas said:
Doesn't change HIS article - but it sure makes you look bad (granted, a daily occurance in here - but even for you it was early today)

Very strange that someone who says they have served would copy/paste an entire article defending those who trumpet war but refused to serve. Especially when the article was written in the first person and pasted in as your own.

But you go ahead - say you accidently copy/pasted it twice under impression that for 2 seconds you suddenly forgot how to include the source etc.

Overcast or not - the sky must be a very different color in your world.

my own??? You are so damn funny I'm no leftwing nutcase who tries to post articles as my own holly crap your pretty new here so I'll give a pass on your stupidity trying to know how or what I post.
 

docmercer

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Is "holly crap" something you normally hand out here around Christmas? I mean, since you're the one coaching stupidity.

Oh wait...was that holly crap actually from you? Or was that just copied from someone else and you forgot to include the source?
 
eek.

eek.

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The bottom line is that most of our rx Republican bretheren aren't even willing to make the "huge sacrifice" of paying American TAXES, never mind putting their chickenhawk asses into a trench in some foreign country for America.

The Republimuppets have even outsourced their patriotism...
 
TheRightWing

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ktvvegas said:
Is "holly crap" something you normally hand out here around Christmas? I mean, since you're the one coaching stupidity.

Oh wait...was that holly crap actually from you? Or was that just copied from someone else and you forgot to include the source?

Are you that so insecure that you need name calling,putting someone down,typing down to someone to make you feel better? I know Harry Reid,Howard Dean,and many from the left love throwing out labels or putting someone down so I would suggest you cut ties with your idols of the just say no party and be a better person.You seemed to be very angrey over their in Canada vegas so I wish you the best in your quest to be a better person.
 

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