Canada: Legalise Weed, Ban Fat?

[Phaedrus]

<!--StartFragment --> [font=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica][font=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica]Ban Trans Fats, NDP Urges [/font][/font]
[font=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica][font=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica]
(CBC News)
[/font][font=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica]OTTAWA - The NDP wants Canada to become the second country in the world to ban trans fats. [/font]

[font=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica]NDP Leader Jack Layton said Friday that his party plans to introduce a motion in Parliament next week to outlaw the fats, which raise "bad cholesterol" levels and have been linked to heart disease and diabetes. [/font]

<!--StartFragment --> [font=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica]
[font=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica]Canada recently introduced rules requiring most manufactured foods to list their trans fat content on labels by 2006. [/font]

[font=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica]Layton is urging Canada to follow the lead of Denmark, which banned processed trans fats last year, as the World Health Organization recommends. [/font]

[font=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica]"The approach of voluntary compliance is not working," said Layton at a news conference Friday. [/font]



[font=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica]"People expect us to have legislation to protect their health and if we'd been informed that trans fats are dangerous to your health, we'd be irresponsible if we didn't take some action." [/font]

[font=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica]The average Canadian consumes 10 grams of trans fats a day, one of the highest rates in the world. [/font]

<!--StartFragment --> [font=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica]
[font=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica]Trans fatty acids are found in all hydrogenated or partially hydrogenated vegetable oils. Adding hydrogen and heating the oil solidifies it and increases a product's shelf-life. [/font]

[font=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica]Researchers warn that the fats, found in a wide range of commercially available baked goods, are unhealthy even at low levels. [/font]

[/font][/font][/font]

 

[Marco]

Legalizing weed or other drugs for that matter, is just common sense considering prohibition didn't work with alcohol......ask any drug dealer if he'd like to see his product legalized, and you will walk away hearing a resounding "no" everytime.

Just curious to know where these trans fats rank among the list of known killers like tobacco and such.

 

[xpanda]

Given that trans fats are found in a huge sum of our processed foods (cookies, crackers, etc.) I can't see this one passing. Requiring trans fat content to be labelled in the same manner as other fats (monounsaturated, etc.) seems perfectly reasonable to me. I would also favour increased education on the subject. If we're going to pay for health care, we might as well start with prevention.

And marijuana won't be 'legalised' per se; the legislation is to decriminalise the drug only. Though I daresay it won't be long before marijuana and other drugs are indeed fully legal.

 

[Marco]

I really don't foresee the day that drugs are legalized.....there are too many church people who have tried for decades the useless approach of pumping endless billions into prohibition and filling prisons with users.......

Too many stodgy, stubborn people around who think that chaos and hysteria will follow legalization......besides, it's much easier to follow the current flow and continue to dump billions into enforcement, courts, and prisons than actually turning this into an asset that produces billions of dollars for a country that desperately could use it.......

 

[xpanda]

Well, that might be true for the US (there was a massive uproar at the White House when we first tabled legislation to decriminalise pot) but we don't have the same degree of conservatism here in Canada. In Vancouver, as an example, a safe injection house has been opened to get users off the streets and needles off the sidewalks. It was met with a tremendous amount of criticism, but has lately been widely applauded. I think people are starting to understand that drug use is a choice people will make whether the drug is legal or not. Certainly Amsterdam provides a decent model.

 

[eek.]

I'm just starting to get a teeny bit pissed that the fat content is being eliminated (gradually) from our food.
(I like food)

So just 'cos some fat bástard gets unhealthy means that I have to start eating some tasteless healthy fodder?
Fat is taste.
In meat, milk, whatever.
I LIKE MY FOOD THE WAY IT IS. I LIKE TO TASTE MY FOOD.

Now the bloody missus buys 'low fat milk' which is like heavily diluted emulsion paint.
I get a McDonalds which used to be a great hangover breakfast and find that they have squeezed my lovely cheeseburger into a tasteless chewy thing and even the goddam fries aren't the same.
We need a 'classic Mac', that can only be purchased by people under 13 stone. With extra fat if you want it.

Why should I suffer for the sins of others?

 

[docmercer--banned]

I wish they would legalize pot here in the USA ...

know a cop buddy of mine who is all for it ... he hates 9-11 calls as at least one of the parties is liquored up to the max and he is right ... 2 hits on a joint and I doubt beating the crap out of the wife would become a priority

Man, legalize it ... heck, in reality, what is the difference between smoking pot and drinking a fifth of Vodka?

 

[bblight]

George Orwell is alive and well and living on this forum!

What will they legislate next, Soylent Green?

Thank God the good ole' USA hasn't yet sunk to the levels of the Peoples Republic of Canada! At least not yet!

Everything that a person likes will soon illegal if the commies have their way.

In the US, it all started with the Harrison act, effectively outlawing illicit drugs. Then they tried and failed to eliminate booze - so they did the next best thing, they legislated and taxed the hell out of it.
Then came cigarrettes, and a smoking ban in ALL public buildings and workplaces, plus thay're taxing the hell out of it.
Now they're looking at fatty foods - and the persistant buggers will probably get their way sooner or later.

What's next?
I'm worried, because about the only enjoyable thing left will be Sex. Goodbye procreation!

 

[bblight]

And I again agree with Doc - legalize pot and sell it in package storses to the over 21 crowd.

I no longer drink, but whenever me and some old Vietnam era buddies get together....well at our age, a few tokes don't cause the harm booze does - and no hangover.

 

[docmercer--banned]

this whole thing with pot kills me ...

ghees, I live 2 blocks from a liquor store ..... I go months without buying booze

I live 3 blocks from a 7-11 .. a 7-11 that sells porn .. and I never buy the stuff

Legalizing pot is no difft ... folks want it, they will buy it .. if they dont, they wont

Funny to hear this govt trying to crack down on Internet Gambling over "Moral issues" ... when the same guys trying to shut it down probably own shares in race tracks & casinos

Hell, legalize it ... after a good day of losing every football bet, a few hits can only help

 

[angusr]

Controlling the content of trans-fats in foods doesn't seem unreasonable to me. Trans fats generally don't occur naturally - they are chemically modified fats that your body is unable metabolize completely and have very real negative health effects. Food companies use trans fats because they have thicker consistency and act as preservatives, but is this a good enough reason to allow Nabisco to poison us with Oreos? This boils down to whether we should allow companies to add large quantities of unnatural chemicals to food that have been shown to be quite harmful to our health....I say no.

 

[Phaedrus]

Most medicines don't occur naturally either, or cars, houses, Internet root servers, magnetic resonance imagine machinery, bulletproof vests, books, potable water, gambling forums ... what the hell does occur naturally in our lives?
People aren't being duped by Nabisco into poisoning themselves with Oreos, anymore than McDonald's customers are duped into eating those trans fat-heavy french fries that can lead to obesity. They eat Oreos because they like Oreos. They eat McDonald's french fries because they like McDonald's french fries. How do you propose to legislate this away? Will it work as well as the War on Drugs™?


Phaedrus

 

[angusr]

I point out that trans-fats aren't natural because several people in this thread, I believe, were under the impression that these were natural fats instead of artificial preservatives with some caloric value. This is an issue of the government regulating the amount of a harmful artificial chemical that can be added into food sold in grocery stores. Surely even you must admit that this is an area in which government should be involved.....or should we allow food companies to add arsenic and lead to potato chips if it made them tastier and people were ignorant or apathetic about the health consequences?

This is easy to legislate - simply place reasonable limits on the quantity of trans fats allowable in foods the same way they do for countless other chemicals. Go to the grocery store sometime and see how many foods you eat every day contain partially hydrogenated vegetable oils - it will amaze you how little choice you really have.

It is possible that over time, as people become educated about the harmful health effects of trans fats that companies will see a niche market and start voluntarily producing foods that are trans-fat free. I've seen some movement in this direction already. But that doesn't mean that our government shouldn't step in and speed up the process a bit.

Angus

 

[Phaedrus]

I point out that trans-fats aren't natural because several people in this thread, I believe, were under the impression that these were natural fats instead of artificial preservatives with some caloric value.

Fair enough.


This is an issue of the government regulating the amount of a harmful artificial chemical that can be added into food sold in grocery stores. Surely even you must admit that this is an area in which government should be involved.....or should we allow food companies to add arsenic and lead to potato chips if it made them tastier and people were ignorant or apathetic about the health consequences?
(emphasis added)

Although the example is absurd, I'll bite: yes, for the record I think that potato chip makers should absolutely feel free to lace potato chips with arsenic. Any idiot who will put something in his body without being interested in the potential effects of such an ingestion can only be doing society at large a favour by ingesting rat poison.

This is easy to legislate - simply place reasonable limits on the quantity of trans fats allowable in foods the same way they do for countless other chemicals. Go to the grocery store sometime and see how many foods you eat every day contain partially hydrogenated vegetable oils - it will amaze you how little choice you really have.

The problem is, people like trans fat laden foods. I do not have any data on the topic, but I would be seriously, utterly astonished beyond description if there is not a thriving aftermarket for trans fat content foods in Denmark, the only country on earth where such foods are illegal. By them in wherever, Finland or Sweden or Estonia, drive over and sell them (or more likely, keep them for yourself.)

What I mean is, I very very very seriously doubt that Danish legislation has done anything to quell the appetite for the banned substance. This very simply does not work, has never worked in any example of any "prohibitionist" legislation from any country in the history of the world, and in many (if not most) cases has the exact opposite intended effect by encouraging black marketeers (probably not such an issue for Oreos and french fries, but of course it caused an explosion in illicit drug use in the U.S. after Nixon declared war on drugs, same as the explosion in the alcohol black market during Prohibition.)

It is possible that over time, as people become educated about the harmful health effects of trans fats that companies will see a niche market and start voluntarily producing foods that are trans-fat free. I've seen some movement in this direction already. But that doesn't mean that our government shouldn't step in and speed up the process a bit.

My point is, they can't. Nothing in thousands of years of human history suggests that any government can speed up anything, unless you count spending or general social decline or death from the skies.

Do you really think that there is one literate adult anywhere in the entire world who is unaware of the general risks of smoking, drinking alcohol, heroin use, etc.? Yet all of these substances are ingested en masse all over the world every single hour of every single day. Do you really think that the state can somehow magically get people to stop eating Oreos? Painful, stark, undeniable reality can't get society in general to stop drinking and driving or engaging in other patently idiotic, potentially lethal (and not just to the individual in question) behaviour.

So ... no, absolutely not, I do not think that the state should get involved in legislating french fry and Oreo composition. The problem is bad enough as is.


Phaedrus

 

[xpanda]

George Orwell is alive and well and living on this forum!

What will they legislate next, Soylent Green?

Thank God the good ole' USA hasn't yet sunk to the levels of the Peoples Republic of Canada! At least not yet!

Everything that a person likes will soon illegal if the commies have their way.

In the US, it all started with the Harrison act, effectively outlawing illicit drugs. Then they tried and failed to eliminate booze - so they did the next best thing, they legislated and taxed the hell out of it.
Then came cigarrettes, and a smoking ban in ALL public buildings and workplaces, plus thay're taxing the hell out of it.
Now they're looking at fatty foods - and the persistant buggers will probably get their way sooner or later.

What's next?
I'm worried, because about the only enjoyable thing left will be Sex. Goodbye procreation!

Hey, Blight, try reading the article and then getting a slight grasp of current Canadian politics.

The NDP, who are 'urging' this legislation, aren't in power! In fact, they aren't even kinda sorta in power. They represent the fourth-largest political party in the House of Commons with 19 out of 308 seats.

As for us 'commies' who are making everything illegal, one can only assume you completely and utterly missed the fact that the party who is in power is tabling legislation to decriminalise pot??? Wee bit over your head, was it??

 

[bblight]

xpanda - I wasn't refering to Canada - I was refering to the US.

I could hardly care what you people do to yourselves - I don't even go up there any more - over the years I've felt less and less comfortable whenever I visited Canada - and I used to love the casino in Montreal.

My family and I used to go up there at least every other year - and now none of us have been there for about 5 years. Now I stick exclusively to the US and Bermuda - where I'm not treated like a parriah.

 

[xpanda]

Thank God the good ole' USA hasn't yet sunk to the levels of the Peoples Republic of Canada! At least not yet!

You were saying .... ??

 

[bblight]

And the rest of that post was:
"Everything that a person likes will soon illegal if the commies have their way.

In the US, it all started with the Harrison act, effectively outlawing illicit drugs. Then they tried and failed to eliminate booze - so they did the next best thing, they legislated and taxed the hell out of it.
Then came cigarrettes, and a smoking ban in ALL public buildings and workplaces, plus thay're taxing the hell out of it.
Now they're looking at fatty foods - and the persistant buggers will probably get their way sooner or later.

What's next?
I'm worried, because about the only enjoyable thing left will be Sex. Goodbye procreation!"

As I was saying!