Can Atheists have morals?

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Hitman26

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But aren't atheists less moral than religious people?"

That depends. If you define morality as obedience to God, then of course atheists are less moral as they don't obey any God. But usually when one talks of morality, one talks of what is acceptable ("right") and unacceptable ("wrong") behavior within society.

Humans are social animals, and to be maximally successful they must co-operate with each other. This is a good enough reason to discourage most atheists from "anti-social" or "immoral" behavior, purely for the purposes of self-preservation.

Many atheists behave in a "moral" or "compassionate" way simply because they feel a natural tendency to empathize with other humans. So why do they care what happens to others? They don't know, they simply are that way.

Naturally, there are some people who behave "immorally" and try to use atheism to justify their actions. However, there are equally many people who behave "immorally" and then try to use religious beliefs to justify their actions. For example:

"Here is a trustworthy saying that deserves full acceptance: Jesus Christ came into the world to save sinners... But for that very reason, I was shown mercy so that in me... Jesus Christ might display His unlimited patience as an example for those who would believe in him and receive eternal life. Now to the king eternal, immortal, invisible, the only God, be honor and glory forever and ever."

The above quote is from a statement made to the court on February 17th 1992 by Jeffrey Dahmer, the notorious cannibal serial killer of Milwaukee, Wisconsin. It seems that for every atheist mass-murderer, there is a religious mass-murderer. But what of more trivial morality?

A survey conducted by the Roper Organization found that behavior deteriorated after "born again" experiences. While only 4% of respondents said they had driven intoxicated before being "born again," 12% had done so after conversion. Similarly, 5% had used illegal drugs before conversion, 9% after. Two percent admitted to engaging in illicit sex before salvation; 5% after. <CITE>["Freethought Today", September 1991, p. 12.]</CITE>

So it seems that at best, religion does not have a monopoly on moral behavior.

Of course, a great many people are converted to (and from) Christianity during adolescence and their early twenties. This is also the time at which people begin to drink and become sexually active. It could be that the above figures merely indicate that Christianity has no effect on moral behavior, or insufficient effect to result in an overall fall in immoral behavior.

"Is there such a thing as atheist morality?"

If you mean "Is there such a thing as morality for atheists?", then the answer is yes, as explained above. Many atheists have ideas about morality which are at least as strong as those held by religious people.

If you mean "Does atheism have a characteristic moral code?", then the answer is no. Atheism by itself does not imply anything much about how a person will behave. Most atheists follow many of the same "moral rules" as theists, but for different reasons. Atheists view morality as something created by humans, according to the way humans feel the world 'ought' to work, rather than seeing it as a set of rules decreed by a supernatural being.
 
DarrylParsons

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edub69 said:
I think maybe the 10% where we don't overlap is the issue you described before as improvement in a given person's morality.

Actually I was talking about the other 90%. I usually only point out what I think is a morality misstep (or sin) if I know the person well and think he will also agree with me after some reflection. I would never do it if these conditions didn't exist, which is usually the case in the other 10%.

As for the small sample size, I agree it's too small to declare anything as a hard, cold fact, but to offer help to someone who will likely appreciate it no sample size is too small IMO.
 
xpanda

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truthteller said:
Can an atheist theoretically live a moral life?

It could be argued that one who practices moral behaviour because of fear of a 'hellish' afterlife isn't really moral at all, only self-serving. It is likely not a stretch to say that god-fearing individuals behave in a more moral fashion than an atheist, but this does not mean that they are actually moral.

If I don't kill someone out of fear of getting caught, is that more moral than not killing someone because I don't wish that kind of harm on another person and his family?
 
DarrylParsons

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CAPN CRUNCH said:
What if there are different Gods with differing views and different levels of power? Kind of like us humans here on Earth? Anyone?

That would be Hinduism in a nutshell.
 
blueedwards

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xpanda said:
It could be argued that one who practices moral behaviour because of fear of a 'hellish' afterlife isn't really moral at all, only self-serving. It is likely not a stretch to say that god-fearing individuals behave in a more moral fashion than an atheist, but this does not mean that they are actually moral.

If I don't kill someone out of fear of getting caught, is that more moral than not killing someone because I don't wish that kind of harm on another person and his family?

x...please see my posts above
 
Baker

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truthteller said:
But how do we define what is good?

Blue, good question. If I found out tomorrow that there is no God, I wouldn't be married for one, I would stop helping people in need, get drunk and start doing a lot of other stuff that the Bible says is not moral.

Anyone who even thinks that belief in god is necessary in order to have morals or live a moral life has an underdeveloped sense of morality themself, uless they are under 6 years old.

I would say that truthteller is actually morally bankrupt and lives life where fear of punishment steers his actions. This would be considered pre-conventional morality.

One only truly has morality if they can differentiate bewteen right/wrong good/bad without someone else's guidance and without the fear of punishment. You don't need to believe in god to do that, all you need to do is respect yourself and your fellow man equally.
 
edub69

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Darryl Parsons said:
Actually I was talking about the other 90%. I usually only point out what I think is a morality misstep (or sin) if I know the person well and think he will also agree with me after some reflection. I would never do it if these conditions didn't exist, which is usually the case in the other 10%.

As for the small sample size, I agree it's too small to declare anything as a hard, cold fact, but to offer help to someone who will likely appreciate it no sample size is too small IMO.

OK, I misunderstood what you wrote somewhat. Either way I would say your percentages are about right. Amen to your second statement, everyone can use a helping hand in life no matter what.
 
DarrylParsons

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JR,

Just did a quick surf and I think an answer to your question can be summed up by this, taken from this link:

The words "repent," "repentance," and "repented" are mentioned over 100 times in the Bible. There has been a lot of misunderstanding and confusion over what the word repentance means. When the word "repent" is used in the Word of God in the context of Biblical salvation, it is referring to a truly God-given, Spirit-led change of heart and mind toward God about sin.

"Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out ..." (Acts 3:19).

The greatest need for any sinner is have his sins blotted out, but a man will never have the pardon of sin while he is in love with his sin. There must be a hatred of sin, a loathing of it, a turning from it. Repentance is a revolution in dealing with our attitude and view towards sin and righteousness. Repentance is not something one does with his hands, but it is an inward attitude of the soul. Sin must become, in the eyes of the sinner, exceedingly sinful.
 
edub69

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Darryl Parsons said:
That would be Hinduism in a nutshell.

Same goes for the "ancient" Greek, Roman, and Egyptian version of religion, which we call mythology now because the ways of life that spawned them are basically extinct.
 

nimue77

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Neither were atheists.



blue edwards said:
edub, you are certainly free to live by any method that suits you. just so you know, my last sentence in the post you referenced is the main message of the satanic bible. most people think that the theme would be to worship the devil...it is not.

mohammed atta was doing what was right in his own eyes...so was hitler.
 
JinnRikki

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Darryl Parsons said:
JR,

Just did a quick surf and I think an answer to your question can be summed up by this, taken from this link:

The words "repent," "repentance," and "repented" are mentioned over 100 times in the Bible. There has been a lot of misunderstanding and confusion over what the word repentance means. When the word "repent" is used in the Word of God in the context of Biblical salvation, it is referring to a truly God-given, Spirit-led change of heart and mind toward God about sin.


"Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out ..." (Acts 3:19).



The greatest need for any sinner is have his sins blotted out, but a man will never have the pardon of sin while he is in love with his sin. There must be a hatred of sin, a loathing of it, a turning from it. Repentance is a revolution in dealing with our attitude and view towards sin and righteousness. Repentance is not something one does with his hands, but it is an inward attitude of the soul. Sin must become, in the eyes of the sinner, exceedingly sinful.

Got any statistics on how many folks actually know/believe this? (rhetorical)
 
edub69

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blue edwards said:
edub, you are certainly free to live by any method that suits you. just so you know, my last sentence in the post you referenced is the main message of the satanic bible. most people think that the theme would be to worship the devil...it is not.

mohammed atta was doing what was right in his own eyes...so was hitler.

But if I don't believe in the christian bible then I don't believe in satan either, so the satanic bible is equally irrelevant to me.
 

truthteller

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Baker said:
I would say that truthteller is actually morally bankrupt and lives life where fear of punishment steers his actions. This would be considered pre-conventional morality.

One only truly has morality if they can differentiate bewteen right/wrong good/bad without someone else's guidance and without the fear of punishment. You don't need to believe in god to do that, all you need to do is respect yourself and your fellow man equally.

I believe the Bible is the word of God and if you live by what the Bible teaches you will live a satisfying and rewarding life. I am guided by what is right and wrong according to what is in the Bible.

I believe that man is not the ultimate authority in what is right and wrong. I guess that's where I differentiante from an atheist.
 
edub69

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Who wrote the christian bible?
 
eek.

eek.

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What did folks do before the Bible showed up?

Good and bad have been around for a heck of a lot longer than it has.

Religions come and they go.
Whichever one you look at, they all claim to have the answers to questions that can't be answered.
icon10.gif
 
wolfie_cr

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staying on the subject of morals/atheism and not ending in the does God(Gods,god,gods and its variations) exist.......

from dictionary.com

"moral=Of or concerned with the judgment of the goodness or badness of human action and character"

nowhere in there it says anything about religion/lack of it/wanting a reward after you die for your "good" actions etc.......

do you need someone to feed you its version (and its consequences) of whats good/bad......then sign up for a religion..........then you can have multiple inconsistent views of what "God" is telling us to do....ultimately YOU decide

let's not forget like other posters mentioned the wars that were MANDATED by god...............is that moral? is it moral to burn people because they "are" witches and therefore bad? is it ok to be polygamous? (hey, don't I wish :p)

am I inmoral because I work on sunday? or because I eat meat of such and such kind on a certain day?

I am willing to bet with most (reasonable posters only please) that out of a list I would agree with the "religious" person on 95% of the things that are moral or not

There are situations where I would not agree and these typically are cases of "malum prohibitum" that is, its "bad because its prohibited"

example, is it ok for a couple of consenting adults who used proper birth control/health measures to engage in sexual activities? to me yes............according to most religious interpretations its not..

you can't have it both ways........."religion is required for morality" and then "well that's really insignificant, its almost not inmoral.............come'on !"

another one........masturbation......is it inmoral? will I damage mankind by doing it???? is it inmoral according to the religions of the world ?

I think most atheists can say "I am an ateist and live a good christian life" :lolBIG:

Is it necessary to sign up for a religion in order to be a moral person? NO, I think I can figure out that I shouldn't go out on the street and kill people if I expect to have a long life.........let's not kill other people .........and be civil with or without religion
 
blueedwards

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This may be only tangential to the subject but does have to do with morality...

My dad used to work for a hard-drinking, gambling, cusssing, swearing little Texan who was the CEO of the company and went by the name, J.B. {This is way before Dallas and JR Ewing}

One time they were talking about vices, and JB told my Dad "everybody from the preacher to a president got a vice. And if it ain't drinkin', smokin', chasin' skirt or gamblin' it's either somethin' I don't understand or somethin' I don't like."

And I have to say I believe this to be true. I can't tell you how many supposed preachers and practitioners of the Good Book I've run into in my personal life who have been filing bankruptcy to preserve assets, soliciting donations from a poor parish to live in fancy houses and drive luxury cars, and who cheat their companies and all the while "witness for for jesus". But all the while they'll hum the mantra of how gambling, drinking, chasing skirt is immoral.

For what it's worth this is from a fallen Catholic and a born again atheist...
 
blueedwards

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mudbone said:
This may be only tangential to the subject but does have to do with morality...

My dad used to work for a hard-drinking, gambling, cusssing, swearing little Texan who was the CEO of the company and went by the name, J.B. {This is way before Dallas and JR Ewing}

One time they were talking about vices, and JB told my Dad "everybody from the preacher to a president got a vice. And if it ain't drinkin', smokin', chasin' skirt or gamblin' it's either somethin' I don't understand or somethin' I don't like."

And I have to say I believe this to be true. I can't tell you how many supposed preachers and practitioners of the Good Book I've run into in my personal life who have been filing bankruptcy to preserve assets, soliciting donations from a poor parish to live in fancy houses and drive luxury cars, and who cheat their companies and all the while "witness for for jesus". But all the while they'll hum the mantra of how gambling, drinking, chasing skirt is immoral.

For what it's worth this is from a fallen Catholic and a born again atheist...

plenty of people do bad things in the name of religion. plenty of ministers, preachers, etc have done things privately that they have condemed publically...does mean the christian message is not true.

if i dont like my math teacher's personality or if he is rude...that doesnt cahnge the fact that 2+2=4.
 
blueedwards

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Hitman26 said:
Golden rule:

Do un to others. That's what I live by. I know what it feels like to be hurt and I know I wouldn't want others to feel that way. Christianity kills me with the notion that you can do unspeakable acts, but if on your deathbed you "accept Christ and ask for forgiveness" it's all good. However if you live your life helping people out and going about your business, and you happen to not believe in Christ, well too bad for you but your going to hell.



How old does the bible date the world? Maybe 10dk years max? Science tells us that it's around 4.5 billion years old. I really wish a Christian would explain this to me.

you believe everything science "tells" you?
 

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