Can Atheists have morals?

[blueedwards]

Why would you have morals, after all you can be forgiven your sins can't you??

you clearly have a misunderstanding of christianity.

let me answer your question this way...does a married man do nice things for his wife to gain her approval or because he loves her?

 

[JinnRikki]

What's morally wrong with living a hedonistic life if you are an atheist?

Please, your definition of hedonistic is?

 

[JinnRikki]

you clearly have a misunderstanding of christianity.

let me answer your question this way...does a married man do nice things for his wife to gain her approval or because he loves her?

Both, loves her first and seeks approval second.

 

[CAPNCRUNCH]

JR: I thought I was clear when I said it is my opinion, never intended to speak for anyone else. Just the way I believe, dont intend to try to speak for you, if you are offended I apologize.

 

[blueedwards]

What you really mean is why would they have the same morals that you have.

We live in a society and most people care about how their actions affect others. If your actions hurt other people and this in turn hurts your image of yourself and causes you to examine what kind of a person you are, you have learned a lesson in morality. Whether you change your behavior because you think you are not acting the way that God would want you to act, or because you just don't like hurting other people, makes no difference. If hurting others doesn't bother you, then you have no morals regardless of whether you believe in some deity.

no, what i really mean is why have any morals at all. you go on to talk about "not wanting to hurt other people". well, since you dont beleive in God, you likely do not believe in moral absolutes...everything is relative depending on the time, culture, etc. well, under that presumption...you could wake up one day and decide that hurting people doesn't bother you anymore.

getting back to what i meant (because i know what i mean better than you do)...if i am an atheist, there are no consequences to my actions if i am not caught. if i cheat on my wife, and she never finds out...no one is hurt by that action. so, no harm...no foul. i can cheat on my taxes (if i decide its ok at the time for whatever reason) and as long as i am not caught, its cool.

if there is no God then...i make the rules for how i live my life. and, as long as those rules conform with the laws and the societal norms of my time/culture...i have no chance of being shunned or imprisoned for my actions. its all relative. i do what is right in my own eyes and no one can judge me.

 

[JinnRikki]

JR: I thought I was clear when I said it is my opinion, never intended to speak for anyone else. Just the way I believe, dont intend to try to speak for you, if you are offended I apologize.

No offense taken other than the original OP. But your opinion will need modification as you clearly know one, now, who doesn't have any nagging doubts.

 

[edub69]

What's morally wrong with living a hedonistic life if you are an atheist?

Maybe hedonistic isn't the right word then. I was referring to how you said you would behave if you didn't believe in God, which some would describe as hedonistic. I have no regrets about my behavior as far as drinking, having sex, doing drugs, etc. Now I'm married and I love my wife, and I don't cheat on her because I love her and I don't want to hurt her. So I consider my marital behavior moral, even though I can still look at a hot chick and find her appealing. But if I adhered to the bible then I would have to consider my feelings of attraction immoral, even though I do nothing about it, and this would be a real drag. What I do care about is hurting others, especially those I care about - even though I believe that when I die, the electrical charges that make up my thoughts and dreams will be extinguished forever and my lifeless body will be burned in an incinerator.

Do you gamble, truthteller? Is gambling considered immoral, according to your set of morals?

 

[blueedwards]

Both, loves her first and seeks approval second.

ok, let me rephrase:

what if you had a wife who was so loving and compassionate that she would forgive you no matter what...you could slap her around, cheat on her lie to her...whatever. as long as you were contrite after you abuse her, she would take you back and treat you the same as the day you were married.

now, you love this woman. would you cheat on her at ever opportunity, slap her around when it suits you...or would you try your best to treat her right and return that love...especially since you have an unbelievabley compassionate and caring wife who would forgive you when you clearly do not deserve it?

 

[truthteller]

Please, your definition of hedonistic is?

That pleasure (sexual) in most cases is the sole or chief good in life.
What is wrong with that to an atheist?

 

[CAPNCRUNCH]

JR: With all due respect and I do respect you, because you believe 100 percent in your convictions does not and will not change what I believe. That is why it is my opinion. Just because I do not believe you do not get angry , it is what I believe. A right to disagree is what makes the USA great. Thank you!

 

[kingbill]

I don't believe human decency is the property of any religion; I like to believe I have strong moral values, even though I don't believe in a "god", my moral outlook may not be shared by everyone but part of living on this small planet together I believe if someone is hurt you help them, if someone is hungry you give them food, I think is should be part of the way everyone lives. Unfortunately this planet is full of immoral people religious or not but I guess the real question comes down to what you consider morally apprehensible?

 

[JinnRikki]

no, what i really mean is why have any morals at all. you go on to talk about "not wanting to hurt other people". well, since you dont beleive in God, you likely do not believe in moral absolutes...everything is relative depending on the time, culture, etc. well, under that presumption...you could wake up one day and decide that hurting people doesn't bother you anymore.

getting back to what i meant (because i know what i mean better than you do)...if i am an atheist, there are no consequences to my actions if i am not caught. if i cheat on my wife, and she never finds out...no one is hurt by that action. so, no harm...no foul. i can cheat on my taxes (if i decide its ok at the time for whatever reason) and as long as i am not caught, its cool.

if there is no God then...i make the rules for how i live my life. and, as long as those rules conform with the laws and the societal norms of my time/culture...i have no chance of being shunned or imprisoned for my actions. its all relative. i do what is right in my own eyes and no one can judge me.

I'm going to cave a little here Blue and allow there may be a God. Now what I mean as a God is conscience. If I do something that is antithetical to what I believe is right my God/conscience always lets me know. Now I don't need the threat of everlasting hell to make me do the right thing because I do the right thing and still don't believe in it. One simple thing Jesus said , "do unto others as you would have them do unto you", that's what I live by.

 

[docmercer--banned]

I know folks that claim to be religious .... have "talks with God" and then illegally start a war that kills thousands of American soldiers and thousands of Iraqi children

Bush is living proof that lip service exsits for a lot of folks who walk around touting the Bible

 

[edub69]

no, what i really mean is why have any morals at all. you go on to talk about "not wanting to hurt other people". well, since you dont beleive in God, you likely do not believe in moral absolutes...everything is relative depending on the time, culture, etc. well, under that presumption...you could wake up one day and decide that hurting people doesn't bother you anymore.

getting back to what i meant (because i know what i mean better than you do)...if i am an atheist, there are no consequences to my actions if i am not caught. if i cheat on my wife, and she never finds out...no one is hurt by that action. so, no harm...no foul. i can cheat on my taxes (if i decide its ok at the time for whatever reason) and as long as i am not caught, its cool.

if there is no God then...i make the rules for how i live my life. and, as long as those rules conform with the laws and the societal norms of my time/culture...i have no chance of being shunned or imprisoned for my actions. its all relative. i do what is right in my own eyes and no one can judge me.

Your last sentence pretty much sums up my philosophy. Anyone can feel free to judge me if they want but their judgments are non-binding and inconsequential, other than my having to conform to the laws of our society as you mention. The rest of your post pretty much says what my post did, in that you ask why would anyone do good if they don't believe in god. The underlying point you make, at least the way I interpret it, is that someone who does good deeds or behaves in a "moral" way must belive in god or else why would they behave in any way that reflects more than their own self-interest. Now if you'll excuse me, all this talk about morality has left me with only a half-hour to make my baseball picks.

 

[blueedwards]

edub, you are certainly free to live by any method that suits you. just so you know, my last sentence in the post you referenced is the main message of the satanic bible. most people think that the theme would be to worship the devil...it is not.

mohammed atta was doing what was right in his own eyes...so was hitler.

 

[Hitman26]

my question is not can they have morals...my question is why would they have morals?

Golden rule:

Do un to others. That's what I live by. I know what it feels like to be hurt and I know I wouldn't want others to feel that way. Christianity kills me with the notion that you can do unspeakable acts, but if on your deathbed you "accept Christ and ask for forgiveness" it's all good. However if you live your life helping people out and going about your business, and you happen to not believe in Christ, well too bad for you but your going to hell.



How old does the bible date the world? Maybe 10dk years max? Science tells us that it's around 4.5 billion years old. I really wish a Christian would explain this to me.

 

[JinnRikki]

ok, let me rephrase:

what if you had a wife who was so loving and compassionate that she would forgive you no matter what...you could slap her around, cheat on her lie to her...whatever. as long as you were contrite after you abuse her, she would take you back and treat you the same as the day you were married.

now, you love this woman. would you cheat on her at ever opportunity, slap her around when it suits you...or would you try your best to treat her right and return that love...especially since you have an unbelievabley compassionate and caring wife who would forgive you when you clearly do not deserve it?

I think I know where this is headed but it is theoretical since no one has ever come back from the dead with any proof that God has forgiven there sins.
And you know there are people who abuse others and cynically go to church on Sunday and expect all their sins are washed away. Look at the good Catholics in the Mafia.

 

[blueedwards]

I think I know where this is headed but it is theoretical since no one has ever come back from the dead with any proof that God has forgiven there sins.
And you know there are people who abuse others and cynically go to church on Sunday and expect all their sins are washed away. Look at the good Catholics in the Mafia.

if God is God...he would know their hearts right? what they expect doesnt really matter. if they are living a lie...is God fooled?

 

[CAPNCRUNCH]

What if there are different Gods with differing views and different levels of power? Kind of like us humans here on Earth? Anyone?

 

[JinnRikki]

if God is God...he would know their hearts right? what they expect doesnt really matter. if they are living a lie...is God fooled?

Absolutely Blue, but who put the escape clause in, man or God. Man because he knows he can't be morale all the time, or God because he doesn't want man to be discouraged?
So the question remains if man believes he can be forgiven sins what is the deterrence?