Can Atheists have morals?

[truthteller]

I have always wondered if people who don't believe in God can really have morals?

How do an Atheist define what is good? Can there be any rational method for
discriminating between "good" and "bad" in a universe where God doesn't exist?

If you go according to the Bible, atheist can't have morals as Psalms 14:1 points out:

The fool says in his heart,
"There is no God.
They are corrupt, their deeds are vile;
There is no one who does good.

I would like to hear other points of view on this.

 

[edub69]

Can someone who practices Buddhism, Hinduism, Shintoism, Taoism, etc. have morals? That's the same question. Not all morals are rooted in the Bible. Many people who believe in the christian version of god commit adultery, theft, and other assorted sins and wrongdoing every day so who really does have morals? What about people who have never heard of christianity - I guess they have no hope of ever having any morals if you look at it this way.

 

[CAPNCRUNCH]

There are many people out there who try to believe in God but just cannot define what or who God is. I believe that everybody knows right from wrong no matter what they call themselves. Whatever religion you do or not believe in the struggle to be good and righteous is always immensely dificult. Politicians of all parties and all races have the most dificult time especially with the hypocritical issues in life. Good question though.

 

[truthteller]

Can someone who practices Buddhism, Hinduism, Shintoism, Taoism, etc. have morals? That's the same question. Not all morals are rooted in the Bible. Many people who believe in the christian version of god commit adultery, theft, and other assorted sins and wrongdoing every day so who really does have morals? What about people who have never heard of christianity - I guess they have no hope of ever having any morals if you look at it this way.

I wasn't referring to a Christian God at all. I meant God in a general sense. It is true that a lot of people who believe in a Chrisitan God don't live a morally acceptable life as defined by that religion. However, that doesn't mean they can't live one. They choose not to. My question was can an Atheist even have those sort of morals to go by that a Christian or any person from another faith has?

Can an atheist theoretically live a moral life?

 

[JinnRikki]

What I'd like to know is how can religious types have morales when they can always be forgiven. Why does it matter what you do if the sin can always be forgiven?
But I live in the world of flesh and blood what I do not only proceeds me but is my legacy. There is no salvation from ones history. People who don't believe in a Deity are no less morale than anyone else but it sure does help the religious nuts sell their particular brand of insanity.
I resent this question quite frankly.

 

[DarrylParsons]

I've known many atheists who display very high morals in their everyday behavior (as defined in the Bible or Quran, say) and also many religious folks who don't.

My opinion is that atheists may even be at a higher moral level overall than religious people, but I'd say the religious ones have a higher expected improvement in morals looking into the future than the atheists.

If I see a religious person do something immoral, he often recognizes it right away if I use the Bible for examples. He may come back with other examples but the discussion is usually very positive in terms of expected future morality. Same is true when I commit a sin and someone is nice enough to point it out to me.

Atheists OTOH tend to be more stubborn and think they know it all, or at least behave that way. They may be doing OK already but I don't see where any significant improvement will come from.

 

[edub69]

I wasn't referring to a Christian God at all. I meant God in a general sense. It is true that a lot of people who believe in a Chrisitan God don't live a morally acceptable life as defined by that religion. However, that doesn't mean they can't live one. They choose not to. My question was can an Atheist even have those sort of morals to go by that a Christian or any person from another faith has?

Can an atheist theoretically live a moral life?

You quoted the Bible so naturally I assumed you were talking Christianity. Besides, different religions have different moral codes, and some religions like Buddhism don't revolve around a being such as God. Anyone who has an idea of what they think is right and what is wrong is living by some sort of moral code.

 

[nimue77]

I am an atheist. You certainly don't need to believe in a god to be a good person. Kind of a ridiculous question I think....

I've known many atheists who display very high morals in their everyday behavior (as defined in the Bible or Quran, say) and also many religious folks who don't.

My opinion is that atheists may even be at a higher moral level overall than religious people, but I'd say the religious ones have a higher expected improvement in morals looking into the future than the atheists.

If I see a religious person do something immoral, he often recognizes it right away if I use the Bible for examples. He may come back with other examples but the discussion is usually very positive in terms of expected future morality. Same is true when I commit a sin and someone is nice enough to point it out to me.

Atheists OTOH tend to be more stubborn and think they know it all, or at least behave that way. They may be doing OK already but I don't see where any significant improvement will come from.

 

[blueedwards]

my question is not can they have morals...my question is why would they have morals?

 

[truthteller]

But how do we define what is good?

Blue, good question. If I found out tomorrow that there is no God, I wouldn't be married for one, I would stop helping people in need, get drunk and start doing a lot of other stuff that the Bible says is not moral.

 

[edub69]

I've known many atheists who display very high morals in their everyday behavior (as defined in the Bible or Quran, say) and also many religious folks who don't.

My opinion is that atheists may even be at a higher moral level overall than religious people, but I'd say the religious ones have a higher expected improvement in morals looking into the future than the atheists.

If I see a religious person do something immoral, he often recognizes it right away if I use the Bible for examples. He may come back with other examples but the discussion is usually very positive in terms of expected future morality. Same is true when I commit a sin and someone is nice enough to point it out to me.

Atheists OTOH tend to be more stubborn and think they know it all, or at least behave that way. They may be doing OK already but I don't see where any significant improvement will come from.

I don't understand this response. The improvement you seem to be monitoring in the behavior of atheists is being evaluated in terms of your own moral prism. Maybe they are improving according to their own moral code and you just don't realize it because you don't know what they are striving for. You are able to evaluate the people who subscribe to a pre-packaged set of morals as defined by their religion because you have something on which to base your evaluation.

 

[DarrylParsons]

Edub,

You're right in that I can only evaluate other people's morals based on what I believe so it can only be my opinion and not a fact. Still, I'd say there's at least a 90% overlap in what atheists and religious people consider moral so it's usually not a point of debate.

But if you like, insert "I think" a couple of times in case I came across too pompously. What I intended to say wouldn't change. I don't think I have any sort of monopoly on morals (unlike some religious folks unfortunately).

 

[JinnRikki]

my question is not can they have morals...my question is why would they have morals?

Why would you have morals, after all you can be forgiven your sins can't you??

 

[edub69]

my question is not can they have morals...my question is why would they have morals?

What you really mean is why would they have the same morals that you have.

We live in a society and most people care about how their actions affect others. If your actions hurt other people and this in turn hurts your image of yourself and causes you to examine what kind of a person you are, you have learned a lesson in morality. Whether you change your behavior because you think you are not acting the way that God would want you to act, or because you just don't like hurting other people, makes no difference. If hurting others doesn't bother you, then you have no morals regardless of whether you believe in some deity.

 

[edub69]

But how do we define what is good?

Blue, good question. If I found out tomorrow that there is no God, I wouldn't be married for one, I would stop helping people in need, get drunk and start doing a lot of other stuff that the Bible says is not moral.

What you guys are saying is that people who do good, even if they say they don't believe in God, must actually believe in God or be touched by God in some way, otherwise they would just live a hedonistic, destructive life. You should put yourself in someone else's shoes and see how that sounds. If the belief in a God who is judging you is the only thing keeping you from living a demonic sort of life then maybe your morals aren't really that strong.

 

[JinnRikki]

Please tell us how many Atheist Crusades were their, anyone? More killing and outright immoral acts have been committed in the name of religion than any other reason, this is moral? ROFLMAO!!!

 

[CAPNCRUNCH]

Blue: Its my opinion only, but I dont believe anyone is really an athiest. Deep down in everyone is a nagging belief or in some people the opposite, a nagging doubt in the existence of what we refer to as God. So along with that belief no matter how minute comes a sense of right and wrong, hence morality .

 

[truthteller]

What you guys are saying is that people who do good, even if they say they don't believe in God, must actually believe in God or be touched by God in some way, otherwise they would just live a hedonistic, destructive life.

What's morally wrong with living a hedonistic life if you are an atheist?

 

[JinnRikki]

With all due respect Mr. Crunch I don't beleive in a deity, period and I have been in crunch (pun intended) time, life and death and did not become the ultimate hypocrite and pray or ask for forgiveness.
So please don't speak for us all.

 

[edub69]

Edub,

You're right in that I can only evaluate other people's morals based on what I believe so it can only be my opinion and not a fact. Still, I'd say there's at least a 90% overlap in what atheists and religious people consider moral so it's usually not a point of debate.

But if you like, insert "I think" a couple of times in case I came across too pompously. What I intended to say wouldn't change. I don't think I have any sort of monopoly on morals (unlike some religious folks unfortunately).

I didn't get any pompousness out of your post DP. I was simply pointing out what I saw as a flaw in your reasoning, along with the necessarily small sample size of people that each of us is dealing with in our own lives. I believe you have it about right with the 90% overlap, which is why we are able to function as a society. I think maybe the 10% where we don't overlap is the issue you described before as improvement in a given person's morality. While Christians are striving to be more like Jesus, us atheists don't have a defined measuring stick, so each of us is shooting at a different target in life.