Wanted to start a new thread without the flaming so I can respond to several issues. The only thing I ask everyone to understand is that I am not here to hurt anyone, only trying to level the playing field. While I'm not perfect I easily put myself in other people's shoes. As a book I thought 90% of the players were scum. Hate to admit it now but it was true. I think I got to that point because it was the 2% of players that stiffed me, took repeated shots at me and did other things I won't post to here that got me fed up with them. Now I am one of "them". My point is things are not ever as one-sided or clear cut as they seem. I want to talk on several issues and see what folks have to say about them. I make no bones as of the last few years I am on the players side and take this stuff seriously when players get scammed out of money. We have nowhere to turn to when this happens. Here are some assorted thoughts:
Buckeyes Sports - I called and talked to them and had a good conversation. As always I find that the book usually understands completely why there would be some questions. He wasn't upset or pissed off even though his book was spoken of here in a bad light, he understood. Only on the site do the folks who recieve ad dollars or some of the book people freak out. The guy was a very logical and reasonable man. Hell he would probably ask the same questions had he had any money that was sent to a 3rd world country. Not to bitch anyone out but when people pile on and offer up nothing but useless drivel it does little to help matters. Though I participated the other thread got out of hand.
Anyway after talking to Buckeye Sports it is my opinion this book is safe and has no affiliation with Wagers Paradise other than what was stated. For one thing I asked him a couple of questions I already knew the answer to just to see if he would lie, he didn't. Also I didn't get the feeling he was trying to sell me anything, in fact though he was friendly I got more of an attitude as this is the way it is. That is a good thing as most scamming joints come across like used car salesmen. Lastly and most importantly I am satisfied without any names being mentioned some of the original folks I knew about are still involved. Of course I am no expert but I believe this place made some questionable calls in the WP deal but is overall a safe place. I want to say I hate to hear about "don't you know who that is" routine as though that is final gospel. I told you long before I knew the background of the original people but when you are sitting in the USA not everybody can keep up with who is who. With splinter groups of this one and partners forming out of old partners etc....it is impossible for an unconnected person like me to stay on top of it. Some books sell off their credit or post up side and are out of business and with new owners before anyone of us know anything. Won't stop me from trying though. Watchdog sites like The Prescription have nothing to lose, it's the players that will lose their money if we don't do our homework. For that reason it is my opinion until things change you can not go by who advertises here. Which leads me to.....
The Prescription - sorry but this place is going downhill Ken. It's one thing to have an agenda but you allow it to completely rule this place and the decisions you make. This place was against touts not long ago now you are trying desperately to sell yourself out in a joint partnership with them. Or we heard nothing about Royal the whole time they were here yet days after they didn't extend their ad dollars Peep hears stuff in e-mails that he posts about? I mean only a day or two after? Other stuff too. Peep as the main man here insists you are not a watchdog site while you insist you are. What the hell are us posters suppossed to think? Not to mention potential advertisers? What's even worse is you do all you can to stifle the free flow of information. I knew when I wanted answers on Buckeye Ken would be by to tell me I was wrong. They never know their own books are going down until it is too late but always enough to put posters down who ask about books like I did. Kind of strange. Ken rushes in to tell me that he wants me to apologize if I'm wrong but how many books have gone belly up while advertising here? I don't get the feeling Ken cares to much to be perfectly frank, I must not be here when he apologizes. The first time it happened here I begged Ken to help me start the TOP (The Off Shore Players club). I told him it does not automatically mean a drop off in ad dollars, just that we would work to put a system in place to check these places out more closely. Hell in fact if done correctly it could have fueled this place like nothing before. The only one on the staff who tried to help me or took it seriously was Angelle!! There is a reason top notch books like Olympic are not here IMO and won't ever be here if things don't change. Instead I had to go off on my own and start TOP and the posters here are left getting stiffed again with Wagers Paradise. All the while the posters here are having Peep prop books like Pro 5 and Yahoops to the readers? Yes Ken looks like I may be wrong about Buckeye Sports but if you did your job on Wagers Paradise it wouldn't have come to this. I feel if I don't ask any questions no one else would, for that I am happy I did......
Wagers Paradise - this means little to anyone who is owed but hearing Buckeye sports talk makes me believe the guy just ran into bad luck. He had an investor and things went sour. This was basically a one man shop operating out of the back of Buckeye sports building. The real fault? The Prescription. Now that I am digging it is incredible that this place passed them off as a viable out for us players or allowed them to sponsor a contest. Anyway no need to beat a dead horse, nothing will change. I will be struggling to help the guys over at TOP find out all we can about the safety of our money while sites like this will be recieving advertising money and asking ZERO questions. They have nothing to lose, only the players do. Anyway for what it's worth, I'm not convinced this guy running WP was a scammer as much as a fellow who ran into bad luck. In fact I am told he went to his own pocket to pay some winners in a contest. However all of this means little to anyone who got stiffed, whatever the reason.
BOOK SHILLS - you guys make things worse, not better. You want to help the players than e-mail pertinent stuff about folks opening up in CR, especially one's that you see advertising at these places. Anyone can sit on the sidelines and take shots at others tryng to help. If I hear once more so and so is a "stand up guy" I will lose it. They all are until they stiff you. Wish I had 10% of what I have gotten stiffed out of by stand up guys in my lifetime. Do you really believe none of us understand you shills have an agenda? When folks like "Ghost" pipe in to these threads and bash people who ask questions it is foolish. When I talk to a book just like Buckeye they are usually the first to admit heck yeah I understand why you have questions. They know they made mistakes here, even they wish they would not have leased out part of their office now. Probably wouldn't have answered WP's phones either. However making a mistake is a big difference than being a stiff joint, I do not believe Buckeyes Sport is in financial danger in any way. Looking back I may have jumped the gun myself, I have no problems admitting it. In my defense I was trying to help. I will be right here trying to do all I can to protect players in the future, no matter who disagrees with me. I will try and not overreact in the future.....
TOP - stands for the The Off-Shore Players club. This is a very small group that does not take any advertising nor does it want any new members though we will add you to an e-mail list if you want. The forum is private though. Anyway it took me telling people incorrectly about a book that took their money one time to want to do something about it. While still growing and learning as we go we hope one day to be in a position to help out other unconnected players like myself. ALL FOR FREE!! It operates out of our own pockets without any ad dollars. The cards are against us as players but more and more we are hearing from honest books, players and sites that want to help us. We ALL have an agenda to some degree. The sites to procure ad money. The books to sign up new accounts and make money. The players to make money and/or have some fun. Does not mean we have to be ugly to one another or be unreasonable. In this circumstance again with Wagers Paradise the players are left holding the bag. All we want is a little help in identifying potential trouble down the road, it's clear the sites will bring anyone on board that can write checks. Forgive me but when a watchdog site or a so called stand up guy has never once warned me of a book going broke it is hard to believe them when they speak highly of one. You want credibility speak out about both sides. If you sit quiety while stiff joints beat players out of their money don't expect us to believe anything else you say either. Anyway sorry if I was rambling. If anyone ever wants to help or ask any questions please e-mail me, thanks for listening. Love to hear any comments...
[This message was edited by Patrick McIrish on 03-22-03 at 09:26 PM.]
Buckeyes Sports - I called and talked to them and had a good conversation. As always I find that the book usually understands completely why there would be some questions. He wasn't upset or pissed off even though his book was spoken of here in a bad light, he understood. Only on the site do the folks who recieve ad dollars or some of the book people freak out. The guy was a very logical and reasonable man. Hell he would probably ask the same questions had he had any money that was sent to a 3rd world country. Not to bitch anyone out but when people pile on and offer up nothing but useless drivel it does little to help matters. Though I participated the other thread got out of hand.
Anyway after talking to Buckeye Sports it is my opinion this book is safe and has no affiliation with Wagers Paradise other than what was stated. For one thing I asked him a couple of questions I already knew the answer to just to see if he would lie, he didn't. Also I didn't get the feeling he was trying to sell me anything, in fact though he was friendly I got more of an attitude as this is the way it is. That is a good thing as most scamming joints come across like used car salesmen. Lastly and most importantly I am satisfied without any names being mentioned some of the original folks I knew about are still involved. Of course I am no expert but I believe this place made some questionable calls in the WP deal but is overall a safe place. I want to say I hate to hear about "don't you know who that is" routine as though that is final gospel. I told you long before I knew the background of the original people but when you are sitting in the USA not everybody can keep up with who is who. With splinter groups of this one and partners forming out of old partners etc....it is impossible for an unconnected person like me to stay on top of it. Some books sell off their credit or post up side and are out of business and with new owners before anyone of us know anything. Won't stop me from trying though. Watchdog sites like The Prescription have nothing to lose, it's the players that will lose their money if we don't do our homework. For that reason it is my opinion until things change you can not go by who advertises here. Which leads me to.....
The Prescription - sorry but this place is going downhill Ken. It's one thing to have an agenda but you allow it to completely rule this place and the decisions you make. This place was against touts not long ago now you are trying desperately to sell yourself out in a joint partnership with them. Or we heard nothing about Royal the whole time they were here yet days after they didn't extend their ad dollars Peep hears stuff in e-mails that he posts about? I mean only a day or two after? Other stuff too. Peep as the main man here insists you are not a watchdog site while you insist you are. What the hell are us posters suppossed to think? Not to mention potential advertisers? What's even worse is you do all you can to stifle the free flow of information. I knew when I wanted answers on Buckeye Ken would be by to tell me I was wrong. They never know their own books are going down until it is too late but always enough to put posters down who ask about books like I did. Kind of strange. Ken rushes in to tell me that he wants me to apologize if I'm wrong but how many books have gone belly up while advertising here? I don't get the feeling Ken cares to much to be perfectly frank, I must not be here when he apologizes. The first time it happened here I begged Ken to help me start the TOP (The Off Shore Players club). I told him it does not automatically mean a drop off in ad dollars, just that we would work to put a system in place to check these places out more closely. Hell in fact if done correctly it could have fueled this place like nothing before. The only one on the staff who tried to help me or took it seriously was Angelle!! There is a reason top notch books like Olympic are not here IMO and won't ever be here if things don't change. Instead I had to go off on my own and start TOP and the posters here are left getting stiffed again with Wagers Paradise. All the while the posters here are having Peep prop books like Pro 5 and Yahoops to the readers? Yes Ken looks like I may be wrong about Buckeye Sports but if you did your job on Wagers Paradise it wouldn't have come to this. I feel if I don't ask any questions no one else would, for that I am happy I did......
Wagers Paradise - this means little to anyone who is owed but hearing Buckeye sports talk makes me believe the guy just ran into bad luck. He had an investor and things went sour. This was basically a one man shop operating out of the back of Buckeye sports building. The real fault? The Prescription. Now that I am digging it is incredible that this place passed them off as a viable out for us players or allowed them to sponsor a contest. Anyway no need to beat a dead horse, nothing will change. I will be struggling to help the guys over at TOP find out all we can about the safety of our money while sites like this will be recieving advertising money and asking ZERO questions. They have nothing to lose, only the players do. Anyway for what it's worth, I'm not convinced this guy running WP was a scammer as much as a fellow who ran into bad luck. In fact I am told he went to his own pocket to pay some winners in a contest. However all of this means little to anyone who got stiffed, whatever the reason.
BOOK SHILLS - you guys make things worse, not better. You want to help the players than e-mail pertinent stuff about folks opening up in CR, especially one's that you see advertising at these places. Anyone can sit on the sidelines and take shots at others tryng to help. If I hear once more so and so is a "stand up guy" I will lose it. They all are until they stiff you. Wish I had 10% of what I have gotten stiffed out of by stand up guys in my lifetime. Do you really believe none of us understand you shills have an agenda? When folks like "Ghost" pipe in to these threads and bash people who ask questions it is foolish. When I talk to a book just like Buckeye they are usually the first to admit heck yeah I understand why you have questions. They know they made mistakes here, even they wish they would not have leased out part of their office now. Probably wouldn't have answered WP's phones either. However making a mistake is a big difference than being a stiff joint, I do not believe Buckeyes Sport is in financial danger in any way. Looking back I may have jumped the gun myself, I have no problems admitting it. In my defense I was trying to help. I will be right here trying to do all I can to protect players in the future, no matter who disagrees with me. I will try and not overreact in the future.....
TOP - stands for the The Off-Shore Players club. This is a very small group that does not take any advertising nor does it want any new members though we will add you to an e-mail list if you want. The forum is private though. Anyway it took me telling people incorrectly about a book that took their money one time to want to do something about it. While still growing and learning as we go we hope one day to be in a position to help out other unconnected players like myself. ALL FOR FREE!! It operates out of our own pockets without any ad dollars. The cards are against us as players but more and more we are hearing from honest books, players and sites that want to help us. We ALL have an agenda to some degree. The sites to procure ad money. The books to sign up new accounts and make money. The players to make money and/or have some fun. Does not mean we have to be ugly to one another or be unreasonable. In this circumstance again with Wagers Paradise the players are left holding the bag. All we want is a little help in identifying potential trouble down the road, it's clear the sites will bring anyone on board that can write checks. Forgive me but when a watchdog site or a so called stand up guy has never once warned me of a book going broke it is hard to believe them when they speak highly of one. You want credibility speak out about both sides. If you sit quiety while stiff joints beat players out of their money don't expect us to believe anything else you say either. Anyway sorry if I was rambling. If anyone ever wants to help or ask any questions please e-mail me, thanks for listening. Love to hear any comments...
[This message was edited by Patrick McIrish on 03-22-03 at 09:26 PM.]
