Attn: Barman...Your Wisdom Needed here

[PointGiven]

a fellow rxer needs your help....%^_

I dont know if you can recall....but I made a thread a while back about my wife getting a speeding ticket...I asked in the thread what to expect if she decided to plead "not guilty"

her court date was today...and everything you said that would happen did

they made her wait a while until the judge was done with the no contest and guilty pleas

then it was her turn...she said "not guilty"...they took her in the back room and made a court date

Dec 26th....the day after christmas....WOW

the other day I wrote the officer a email....just to see if he would respond...I asked him a few questions...here is a few excerpts


My wife was stopped for speeding on 10/28/08 (by you) on Elk
Grove-Florin Rd. I believe the Code was 22350 VC Ticket # 138116
It says on the ticket she was doing 61 in a 35. The first thing I
asked her when she came home that morning was "were you speeding?" She stated
that at that time she was in the left lane with a van behind her and a car on
the side of her. I asked her "would it have been unsafe to go 35 with those cars
around you?" She responded "yes because the car behind her was riding her bumper
and the car on the right kept speeding up so I couldnt change lanes safely over
to the right lane" I then asked "were you doing 61?" She responded "I would have had to be in 5th gear to go that
fast so no I was not" The car she was driving is a 98 toyota corolla 5 speed
manual transmission

Well I believed what she was telling me was the truth for the sole reason
she was in tears AND has never had a ticket in her lifetime. I think she has
been driving for 14 years, since she was 16.

I actually took the car out on the freeway that day and a few other times accelerating up to 61mph and thinking to
myself "man that sure is fast...someone would have to be crazy to go that fast
down Elk Grove florin or down any Elk Grove residential street" Also she was
correct and truthfull when she told me that the car would have to be in 5th gear
to go that fast. Its a 4 cylinder and at no time when we travel off the freeway,
the gear shift would ever be in 5th gear.


So is it possible that maybe the LIDAR gun you used was not properly
calibrated or could it be possible that you had the wrong car?

I assume all your notes and LIDAR calibration records are to be made public record if I choose to
request that information?



so today I look in my email and see this response...




If your wife is going to plead not guilty, that is her right. I can not discuss
the facts of this case with you due to the pending case.

I will tell you I do recall the stop and the circumstances surrounding it.

Speaking in general and not specifically with your wife's case, you asked some
questions about the LIDAR gun. I do utilize a LIDAR gun during the scope of my
employment. LIDAR calibration records are kept on file and can be obtained by a
discovery request or subpoena. LIDAR is unlike RADAR in that it pin points only
one car at a time.

You are also correct in assuming that it is not an option for officers to
withdraw a ticket after it has been written. If your wife wishes to contest the ticket,
she is on the right track as far as appearing in court and pleading not guilty.
A court date will then be scheduled for both her and I to show up in court
together. I will present my case and she will at that time have the opportunity
to present her defense.

I am sorry I can not be more specific, but I do have to follow certain
procedures with regards to court room testimony.




now my question is....can we beat this guy?? hno:hno:hno:hno:

I mean dude sounds like a total troll and if he shows up the day after christmas (as he said he would in his email response) what do you think the best defense would be??

should I ask for calibration records??...Is the general public allowed to see those records???

or can only a lawyer subpoena those records???

do you think we should attack LIDAR??...I mean the way he makes it seem this new LIDAR technology is a open and shut case in court...like...there is no possible way for LIDAR to be wrong :think2:

any feedback from anyone would be greatly appreciated

I just asked for barman cause he seems knowledgeable when it comes to the law

thx guys

 

[Preussen]

I cannot help you much here, but you may want to verify if this officer was properly trained on the LIDAR system. It's unlikely that he wasn't, just as it's unlikely that the system wasn't calibrated properly, but it might be worth a try.

 

[PointGiven]

I cannot help you much here, but you may want to verify if this officer was properly trained on the LIDAR system. It's unlikely that he wasn't, just as it's unlikely that the system wasn't calibrated properly, but it might be worth a try.

ok ok good feed here...

maybe go after HIS training with the LIDAR technology??

do you think they would release records of the history pertaining to the officers training with LIDAR??

this particular dept has a ongoing racket going on (just like most small 'cities' with their own police force funding by them...and not the county) so I wouldnt be surprised if they dont make those records public

like I could just walk in and ask for any records I wanted...lol...that would be a perfect world eh?

thx Pre

 

[PointGiven]

oh and one more question....and I know this will come up :smoker2:

when the Judge asks her "well how fast were you going then if you werent going 61?"

my first thought would be for her to say she was traveling at a safe speed...and if she was going over the posted speed limit of 35 it was because of the driving conditions i.e. someone riding her ass or a car in the right lane not allowing her to pass.

She was in the left lane...Im sure that looks bad as well :hump:


but then a few people said...when the judge asks that fatal question


not to say you were going 1 mile over the speed limit...in other words "I was not going over 35mph your honor"




I read that it states in the law...if driving conditions are unsafe you may exceed the speed limit



I dont know what to tell her....Im confident in the people here on the rx...if they take a few mins to write some feedback...that the cop will be toast come court day

cause I know there are some smart people on this forum


ill say my prayers I get some feedback >>>ope:


the ticket is smooth $400 by the way uke1:

 

[PointGiven]

http://articles.directorym.net/LIDA..._of_choice_California-r907522-California.html

^^damn...after reading that it looks like the police have a new cash cow

cant beat Lidar

wow

shit

funny..I called a lawyer and he said he would defend her for $300...he asked me "whats written on the ticket?"

I said "LIDAR"

he said "we can fight that"

:lol:...ya sure buddy make my $400 ticket cost $700...oookkk

 

[PointGiven]

Although lidar systems require a standard "once-over" inspection by the officer prior to each deployment, internal system checks are done automatically, and no calibration is required. This is a great time savings for the officer or technician assigned the job of keeping maintenance records on any speed enforcement devices.


are you kidding me??

no human adjustment of the device...its all done "internally?"

WOW :sad3:

 

[PointGiven]

there IS a published error with LIDAR

the "trigger jerk error"

hmm :think2:

 

[Preussen]

...maybe go after HIS training with the LIDAR technology??

do you think they would release records of the history pertaining to the officers training with LIDAR??

I don't know anything about how it is in America, but here in Germany if you question it then the police has to prove that the gear was calibrated and the officer properly trained, so with the burden of proof on the police you don't need to get hold of the records yourself. However, at least here in Germany it is extremely rare that officers and laser gear are detailed to such duty without having the proper certifications, so they simply hand in the certifications to the court and that's that. Of course, with many officers not being too bright I'm certain even certified officers make mistakes, but to prove that is almost impossible.

 

[bilbal]

You already got your answer when you called the lawyer. For $300, he'll make it cost only $700, $1,500 or more if you want to get into subpeona business. It won't matter, the judge has heard it all before.

When they took her into the back room to make a court date, she should have immediately offered to plead guilty in exchange for a reduced fine/points.

 

[PointGiven]

You already got your answer when you called the lawyer. For $300, he'll make it cost only $700, $1,500 or more if you want to get into subpeona business. It won't matter, the judge has heard it all before.

When they took her into the back room to make a court date, she should have immediately offered to plead guilty in exchange for a reduced fine/points.

plead guilty eh?

:nohead:


so I was reading a little more into california speed trap laws...basically..if the particular stretch of road they set the trap up at did NOT have a speed zone survey conducted in the last 5 years...the ticket gets thrown out

also..the cop did not write the max "relative speed limit" on the ticket...he just wrote the posted speed limit

see..you can exceed the exceed limit by law depending on driving conditions...there are "absolute" speed limits (highways) and "relative" speed limits (everywhere else..also known as 'prima facie')...this is why it is law here in california stating in order for a legal speed trap to be set up a speed zone survey must have been completed in the last 5 years...in other words the survey sets the standard for the "relative" speed limit on that road...lots of grey area here...what if the survey said the speed limit should have been 45mph instead of 35mph??...lol...ill get that survey...I know someone close to me that works for the california dept of transportation...I dont need nothing from the cops...they can keep their LIDAR records...it comes down to the officer having to prove the person he wrote the ticket to was driving unsafe...I now have a defense


I believe our case will be that the cop dosent have the power to make the decision her speed was "unsafe" under the driving conditions for a good amount of reasons that Im digging up right now :cripwalk:




guess your friends know you wouldnt take the 5th bilbal :missingte

 

[bilbal]

plead guilty eh?

:nohead:


so I was reading a little more into california speed trap laws...basically..if the particular stretch of road they set the trap up at did NOT have a speed zone survey conducted in the last 5 years...the ticket gets thrown out

also..the cop did not write the max "relative speed limit" on the ticket...he just wrote the posted speed limit

see..you can exceed the exceed limit by law depending on driving conditions...there are "absolute" speed limits (highways) and "relative" speed limits (everywhere else..also known as 'prima facie')...this is why it is law here in california stating in order for a legal speed trap to be set up a speed zone survey must have been completed in the last 5 years...in other words the survey sets the standard for the "relative" speed limit on that road...lots of grey area here...what if the survey said the speed limit should have been 45mph instead of 35mph??...lol...ill get that survey...I know someone close to me that works for the california dept of transportation...I dont need nothing from the cops...they can keep their LIDAR records...it comes down to the officer having to prove the person he wrote the ticket to was driving unsafe...I now have a defense


I believe our case will be that the cop dosent have the power to make the decision her speed was "unsafe" under the driving conditions for a good amount of reasons that Im digging up right now :cripwalk:




guess your friends know you wouldnt take the 5th bilbal :missingte

Have you consulted an attorney with what you feel is your case or are you honestly planning to go before a judge with that? You better hope it's his first day on the job. Tickets can be dismissed for any number of reasons, but it won't be because of the excuse you're cooking up.

 

[PointGiven]

Have you consulted an attorney with what you feel is your case or are you honestly planning to go before a judge with that? You better hope it's his first day on the job. Tickets can be dismissed for any number of reasons, but it won't be because of the excuse you're cooking up.

actually...its not an excuse

its written in the california speed trap law

no survey in the last 5 years?...no speed trap legally...no ticket

speed limit posted not the same as indicated in survey...no speed trap legally...no ticket


these are the laws here in california....ive been reading them for the past 3 hours

I hope this thread can help others with information

if the survey looks good...then ill choose another route...extending the court date as much as I can

but I have a feeling that if get my hands on that survey...some type of racket is going to be outed

like I stated before..lots of grey area with "relative" speed limits

maybe ill send the cop another email...tell him "dont worry about LIDAR records...Im in the process of obtaining a speed zone survey in regards to the area where your dept sets up their speed traps"

lmfao....make him think twice about showing UP TO COURT THE MORNING AFTER CHRISTMAS

make him think twice about the small chance of losing in court and revealing information to the general public regarding their dept "practices"

see you in court officer!

 

[bilbal]

actually...its not an excuse

its written in the california speed trap law

no survey in the last 5 years?...no speed trap legally...no ticket

speed limit posted not the same as indicated in survey...no speed trap legally...no ticket


these are the laws here in california....ive been reading them for the past 3 hours

I hope this thread can help others

if the survey looks good...then ill choose another route...extending the court date as much as I can

like I stated before..lots of grey area with "relative" speed limits

So when the judge realizes you are an expert on surveys and speed trap law and starts asking you a dozen different questions on the legal definitions of the survey or speedtraps, what constitutes a speedtrap, what evidence you have it was a speed trap, what will you say then? You have to cite law here and they don't give you Google and Internet access when you're before the judge. You'll be a deer in the headlights.

 

[PointGiven]

So when the judge realizes you are an expert on surveys and speed trap law and starts asking you a dozen different questions on the legal definitions of the survey or speedtraps, what constitutes a speedtrap, what evidence you have it was a speed trap, what will you say then? You have to cite law here and they don't give you Google and Internet access when you're before the judge. You'll be a deer in the headlights.

lmfao

it wont be hard to prove it was a speed trap

LIDAR WAS INVOLVED

:missingte:missingte:hump:

and besides...I have a feeling that the survey will tell all that needs to be told

anyhow...

 

[bilbal]

lmfao

it wont be hard to prove it was a speed trap

LIDAR WAS INVOLVED

:missingte:missingte:hump:

and besides...I have a feeling that the survey will tell all that needs to be told

anyhow...

Is that the answer you plan on giving the judge?
Do you think you'll be the first person to try this survey defense?

 

[texansfan]

I doubt 100% that the officer in question really cares about your wife's particular case. If he is running radar exclusively during his shift then he will have many subpoenas possibly for that particular day.

Our officers here have to go to a 2 week radar school before they are alowed to use them.

Why would the judge ask questions to your wife? The officer will have the prosecutor on his side asking questions on behalf of the city. If your wife has no lawyer she will be expected to ask questions to the officer herself.

The judge will listen to both sides and then make his/her decision.

Now that she has plead not guilty defensive driving is out of the question as well.

 

[barman]

Various Replies follow:

1) Can I use the officer's past record employing the LIDAR?

- Yes, his record of traffic stops and resultant convictions or dismissals is a matter of public record.

===
2) Like I could walk in and ask for any public record??

- Yes, you can do exactly that. But do it ASAP

====
3) when the judge asks....

- The judge will not be asking questions. The city/county has a municipal prosecutor who will do that job on behalf of the state.

=====
4) Called an attorney and he told me that for $300 we could fight that...

- Get a guarantee he will have the ticket dismissed, which he should be able to offer once he sees the physical ticket and hears the details of the stop (about a 15 minute visit for which he may charge you $50...but more likely it's a "free consult")

Sans such a guarantee, be sensible and realize that if he can't beat the ticket, you won't be able to cook up any defense that's going to work either.

In which case, contact the court and find out how to change your plea to No Contest; have the fine and court costs assessed; and then immediately ask for an extended payment plan.

Most courts will automatically permit a six month payout for an additional "handling" cost of about $25

I've forgotten from your original story why it seems so urgent to beat this one traffic ticket, but barring it being a possible loss of license, I can't imagine you want to burn too much more energy in an attempt to get over on this.

If the impetus was mainly, "the cop was a dick", you're chasing windmills and I'm confident you have better challenges in your life for which to use your and your wife's time.

 

[texansfan]

Various Replies follow:

1) Can I use the officer's past record employing the LIDAR?

- Yes, his record of traffic stops and resultant convictions or dismissals is a matter of public record.

===
2) Like I could walk in and ask for any public record??

- Yes, you can do exactly that. But do it ASAP

====
3) when the judge asks....

- The judge will not be asking questions. The city/county has a municipal prosecutor who will do that job on behalf of the state.

=====
4) Called an attorney and he told me that for $300 we could fight that...

- Get a guarantee he will have the ticket dismissed, which he should be able to offer once he sees the physical ticket and hears the details of the stop (about a 15 minute visit for which he may charge you $50...but more likely it's a "free consult")

Sans such a guarantee, be sensible and realize that if he can't beat the ticket, you won't be able to cook up any defense that's going to work either.

In which case, contact the court and find out how to change your plea to No Contest; have the fine and court costs assessed; and then immediately ask for an extended payment plan.

Most courts will automatically permit a six month payout for an additional "handling" cost of about $25

I've forgotten from your original story why it seems so urgent to beat this one traffic ticket, but barring it being a possible loss of license, I can't imagine you want to burn too much more energy in an attempt to get over on this.

If the impetus was mainly, "the cop was a dick", you're chasing windmills and I'm confident you have better challenges in your life for which to use your and your wife's time.

Manny in the house!

 

[random1323]

fukin right

 

[roadreeler57]

I got pulled over one time after about a 2 mile high speed chase & then figured well I cannot outrun a radio so I reluctently pulled over....... The Cop asked why I did'nt pull over right away & I said my Ex Wife ran away with a Cop & I thought you were trying to bring her back.