Atten:Pablum Puking libs please apoligise for callin GW a liar.This is a stunning!!

[PatPatriot]

Sunday, March 13, 2005 10:17 a.m. EST



NY Times: Iraq Had WMD 'Stockpiles' in 2003

In a stunning about-face, the New York Times reported Sunday that when the U.S. attacked Iraq in March 2003, Saddam Hussein possessed "stockpiles of monitored chemicals and materials," as well as sophisticated equipment to manufacture nuclear and biological weapons, which was removed to "a neighboring state" before the U.S. could secure the weapons sites.

The U.N.'s Monitoring, Verification and Inspection Commission [Unmovic], "has filed regular reports to the Security Council since last May," the paper said, "about the dismantlement of important weapons installations and the export of dangerous materials to foreign states."

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"Officials of the commission and the [International] Atomic Energy Agency have repeatedly called on the Iraqi government to report on what it knows of the fate of the thousands of pieces of monitored equipment and stockpiles of monitored chemicals and materials."



Last fall, IAEA director Dr. Mohamed ElBaradei confirmed that "nuclear-related materials" had gone missing from monitored sites, calling on Iraqi officials to start the process of accounting for the missing stockpiles still ostensibly under the agency's supervision.

Quoting Sami al-Araji, Iraq's deputy minister of industry since the 1980s, the Times said:

"It appeared that a highly organized operation had pinpointed specific plants in search of valuable equipment, some of which could be used for both military and civilian applications, and carted the machinery away."

Calling the operation "sophisticated," Dr. Araji said the removal effort featured "cranes and the lorries, and they depleted the whole sites," adding, "They knew what they were doing."

The top Iraqi defense official said equipment capable of making parts for missiles as well as chemical, biological and nuclear arms was missing from 8 or 10 sites that were the heart of Iraq's WMD program.

Dr. Araji said that if the equipment had left the country, its most likely destination was a neighboring state.

The United Nations, worried that the nuclear material and equipment could be used in clandestine bomb production, has been hunting for it throughout the Middle East, largely unsuccessfully, the Times said.

Editor's note:
Celebrate Ronald Reagan

 

[PatPatriot]

Looting at Iraqi Weapons Plants Was Systematic, Official Says

By JAMES GLANZ and WILLIAM J. BROAD
New York Times

BAGHDAD, Iraq, March 12 - In the weeks after Baghdad fell in April 2003, looters systematically dismantled and removed tons of machinery from Saddam Hussein's most important weapons installations, including some with high-precision equipment capable of making parts for nuclear arms, a senior Iraqi official said this week in the government's first extensive comments on the looting.

The Iraqi official, Sami al-Araji, the deputy minister of industry, said it appeared that a highly organized operation had pinpointed specific plants in search of valuable equipment, some of which could be used for both military and civilian applications, and carted the machinery away.

Dr. Araji said his account was based largely on observations by government employees and officials who either worked at the sites or lived near them.

"They came in with the cranes and the lorries, and they depleted the whole sites," Dr. Araji said. "They knew what they were doing; they knew what they want. This was sophisticated looting."

The threat posed by these types of facilities was cited by the Bush administration as a reason for invading Iraq, but the installations were left largely unguarded by allied forces in the chaotic months after the invasion.

Dr. Araji's statements came just a week after a United Nations agency disclosed that approximately 90 important sites in Iraq had been looted or razed in that period.

Satellite imagery analyzed by two United Nations groups - the International Atomic Energy Agency and the Monitoring, Verification and Inspection Commission, or Unmovic - confirms that some of the sites identified by Dr. Araji appear to be totally or partly stripped, senior officials at those agencies said. Those officials said they could not comment on all of Dr. Araji's assertions, because the groups had been barred from Iraq since the invasion.
.....'

 

[JudgeWapner]

I apologize.

 

[PatPatriot]

I apologize.

Thats better.

 

[JudgeWapner]

It's the least I could do. And I always do the least I can.

 

[JinnRikki]

The threat posed by these types of facilities was cited by the Bush administration as a reason for invading Iraq, but the installations were left largely unguarded by allied forces in the chaotic months after the invasion.

More evidence of poor planning and not enough boots on the ground. If this is true the fact that they were there and spirited away after invasion is worse than not having them. Apologize for another shrub phukk up, I think not.

 

[PatPatriot]

More evidence of poor planning and not enough boots on the ground. If this is true the fact that they were there and spirited away after invasion is worse than not having them. Apologize for another shrub phukk up, I think not.<!-- / message -->

I agree....but this wouldn't have happned had the UN gone along and matched troop strength of the US.But they were protecting their own "blood for oil" plans weren't they?
As a matter of fact whats going on in the ME right now on the positive side would be much farther ahead if they just chose to get on the right side of history for a change.

Bottom line is Bush was right and he did not lie.

 

[JudgeWapner]

Pat, is this story all over the news in the States?

 

[919]

ok...so let me get this straigt...we knew where the weapons were (this is what rumdum and bush and condi said over and over before going in)....yet we allowed them to be looted?....this actually makes things worse....the bush administration should be doing the apologizing for allowing the spread of these materials....

 

[919]

oh...and it seems you left this out...wonder why...lol


The threat posed by these types of facilities was cited by the Bush administration as a reason for invading Iraq, but the installations were left largely unguarded by allied forces in the chaotic months after the invasion.

 

[919]

I feel so much safer knowing these weapons are out of Saddam's hand, and instead in the hands of people who WILL try to use them. Thank God they guarded the oil.

 

[919]

Let's Not Forget what Rumsfeld said about the looting at the time:



"Freedom's untidy, and free people are free to make mistakes and commit crimes and do bad things. They're also free to live their lives and do wonderful things. And that's what's going to happen here."

And: "I picked up a newspaper today, and I couldn't believe it, he said. I read eight headlines. And it talked about chaos, violence, unrest ... I've never seen anything like it. And here is a country that's being liberated. Here are people who are going from being repressed and held under the thumb of a vicious dictator. And they're free."

 

[eek.]

The US wouldn't let the IAEA into Iraq for over a year after the Invasion.
No-one really knows what Uncle Sam was up to, if anything, or if it was just because the Neocons hate everything to do with the UN.

http://forum2.therx.com/showthread.php?t=232146&highlight=IAEA

 

[JinnRikki]

I agree....but this wouldn't have happned had the UN gone along and matched troop strength of the US.But they were protecting their own "blood for oil" plans weren't they?

Remember this?

Before the invasion, Deputy Defense Secretary Paul D. Wolfowitz dismissed an estimate by Gen. Eric K. Shinseki, the Army chief of staff, that several hundred thousand troops would be needed to occupy Iraq after the fall of Saddam Hussein's government. "I am reasonably certain that they will greet us as liberators," Halfowitz told a congressional committee, "and that will help us to keep requirements down."

Also which famous twit said something to the effect, "you go to war with the army you have, not the one you wish you had."
As far as protecting blood for oil plans I don't know, do you? This has yet to be sorted out. And while they're sorting maybe they'll run across 9 billion dollars in funds gone missing under Paul Bremers watch.
</NITF>

 

[eek.]

um...Pat...

The UN was not in favour of you invading Iraq.
...actually...pretty much the entire world wasn't.

Bush broke every rule in the diplomatic book.

From day one, you guys were on your own, apart from some token support from those countries who wanted some free $$ handouts.

 

[RobFunk]

GW has a tape of himself where he admits using mary jane, lsd and coke.

cant we talk about that instead? that is more interesting. then patriot can stick up for an admitted drug user. that is a lot more compelling than trying to get the UN to apologize

 

[Woody0]

This is old news and was reported at the time of the invasion. Caches of explosives that could be used to trigger nuclear weapons as well as sophistication precision engineering tools were left unguarded and looted. Neither conventional explosives nor engineering tools conform to the description of weapons of mass destruction.

I've not yet been able to locate a contemporary account but the following is from October 2004:

"FOREIGN DESK | October 25, 2004, Monday

THE CONFLICT IN IRAQ: TRACKING THE WEAPONS; Huge Cache of Explosives Vanished From Site in Iraq

THIS ARTICLE WAS REPORTED AND WRITTEN BY JAMES GLANZ, WILLIAM J. BROAD AND DAVID E. SANGER.; JAMES GLANZ REPORTED FROM BAGHDAD AND YUSIFIYA, IRAQ, FOR THIS ARTICLE, WILLIAM J. BROAD FROM NEW YORK AND VIENNA, AND DAVID E. SANGER FROM WASHINGTON AND CRAWFORD, TEX. KHALID AL-ANSARY CONTRIBUTED REPORTING FROM BAGHDAD. (NYT) 2686 words
Late Edition - Final , Section A , Page 1 , Column 5

ABSTRACT - Iraqi interim government warns US and international nuclear inspectors that nearly 380 tons of powerful conventional explosives, mainly HMX and RDX, are missing from former military installation at Al Qaqaa, 30 miles south of Baghdad; facility was supposed to be under American military control but is now a no man's land, still picked over by looters; White House and Pentagon officials acknowledge that explosives vanished sometime after American-led invasion; are unable to explain why they were not safeguarded, beyond fact that occupation force was overwhelemed by amount of munitions they found in Iraq; American weapons experts say immediate concern is that explosives could be used in major bombing attacks against American or Iraqi forces; International Atomic Energy Agency warned of danger of these explosives before war because they could be used to trigger nuclear weapons as well as to demolish building and make missile warheads."

 

[RobFunk]

From day one, you guys were on your own, apart from some token support from those countries who wanted some free $$ handouts.

yup. his only pals (poland) just got a billion dollars worth of fighter aircraft from the US, so I guess they were just using George and not really his friend.

Bush got suckered by the polish for some fighter jets, and patriot supports him. :toothless

 

[xpanda]

Patricia: where in that Times article do they state that Iraq had stockpiles of WMD? I've read it three times now and can't find anything to support yours or Newsmax's assertion. A couple more questions: why is an article by the Times suddenly a beacon of truth for you? Also, why would the Times say that Iraq did actually have WMD but the administration itself says that the intelligence to support this assertion was wrong? Does the Times have more to gain by exposing this story than the admin?

Things that make you go hmmmm ....

 

[TheRightWing]

Patricia: where in that Times article do they state that Iraq had stockpiles of WMD? I've read it three times now and can't find anything to support yours or Newsmax's assertion. A couple more questions: why is an article by the Times suddenly a beacon of truth for you? Also, why would the Times say that Iraq did actually have WMD but the administration itself says that the intelligence to support this assertion was wrong? Does the Times have more to gain by exposing this story than the admin?

Things that make you go hmmmm ....

It just kills me that we even debate this at all anymore or in the future!! We know and he has admitted in the past, who knows when and where they are or if they were destroyed.Right or wrong and Bush was not at all the only one that said they have them....the man Sadamm is evil and would always be evil no matter WMDS or no WMD! Maybethe way we went about the invasion doesn't look well on our part BUT the man was evil, the people of Iraq are happier today but history will decide right or wrong about the invasion.So lets put the whole WMD to rest and try to get pver the hump and get the troops back asap and will all look down in history as this could be great for a region or if all hell still breaks loose it will tarnish all of the world!