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The last comment sums up my feelings...


Part of Patriot Act Ruled Unconstitutional

By LINDA DEUTSCH, AP Special Correspondent

LOS ANGELES - A federal judge has declared unconstitutional a portion of the USA Patriot Act that bars giving expert advice or assistance to groups designated foreign terrorist organizations.



The ruling marks the first court decision to declare a part of the post-Sept. 11 anti-terrorism statute unconstitutional, said David Cole, a Georgetown University law professor who argued the case on behalf of the Humanitarian Law Project.


In a ruling handed down late Friday and made available Monday, U.S. District Judge Audrey Collins said the ban on providing "expert advice or assistance" is impermissibly vague, in violation of the First and Fifth Amendments.


John Tyler, the Justice Department (news - web sites) attorney who argued the case, had no comment and referred calls to the department press office in Washington. A message left there was not immediately returned.


The case before the court involved five groups and two U.S. citizens seeking to provide support for lawful, nonviolent activities on behalf of Kurdish refugees in Turkey.


The Humanitarian Law Project, which brought the lawsuit, said the plaintiffs were threatened with 15 years in prison if they advised groups on seeking a peaceful resolution of the Kurds' campaign for self-determination in Turkey.


The judge's ruling said the law, as written, does not differentiate between impermissible advice on violence and encouraging the use of peaceful, nonviolent means to achieve goals.


"The USA Patriot Act places no limitation on the type of expert advice and assistance which is prohibited and instead bans the provision of all expert advice and assistance regardless of its nature," the judge said.


Cole declared the ruling "a victory for everyone who believes the war on terrorism ought to be fought consistent with constitutional principles."
 

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Yeah, feel free to help terrorist organizations.
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KMAN
 

There's always next year, like in 75, 90-93, 99 &
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This is a sad day for freedom haters, like John Asscroft and Kman.
 

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Our government helps out so many bad governments and people I guess they didn't like the competition
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KMAN, I enjoy reading your posts and admire you for fighting the good fight. We certainly agree on what has been done in Iraq and Afghanistan. Where we disagree is in matters such as the subject of this thread. I read a lot of rhetoric on this board about "supporting terrorists", or "giving aid and comfort to the enemy" by not agreeing with EVERYTHING our leaders are doing. We all know that these ass-wipes get their rocks off by the blood and guts that their bombs create. But if you think that they don't get off just as much by watching the leaders of the country that they hate the most, systematically dismantle whatever parts of it's constitution might make their jobs easier, then I feel that you are underestimating the terrorists intelligence. Sure, the individuals that actually carry out these suicide bombings are no doubt a collection of middle-eastern morons. But the guys behind those idiots, the ones that are actually calling shots, are surely laughing their asses off every time they hear that a judge has to explain to our leaders that what they are doing is unconstitutional. Not to mention the terrorists realization that what they are doing is working (if only in their minds..or not) to some degree. To me, I feel that this provides just as much, if not more, "aid and comfort" to the enemy, than any liberal spewing forth the montra of the week against the President. Sorry to butt heads brother. Keep the libs at bay
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RAZZ
 

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KMAN

You're a tool. Have you looked to see just what part of USA-PATRIOT it was that was struck down? If you have any actual love of America qua the values of our founding fathers and traditional liberties enjoyed by Americans, you might just agree with this ruling.

USA-PATRIOT is an enormous document that was written in a hurry and read by no one who voted on it. How in the hell can you possibly be in favour of such a piece of legislation, no matter what "cause" it furthers?


Phaedrus
 

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Phaedrus, you can have as many guns as like.

That's the least of your countries' problems at the minit.

Long live the United States Constitution.
 

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The good times keep on keeping on ...

Federal Judge Rejects Part of Patriot Act

Provision Giving FBI Access to Business Records Overturned

Story is here

I'd have copied it but the new forum sucks mule nuts and wants me to edit my config file just to paste text into a window. I really have to congratulate you guys on finding something worse than Infopop -- mind-blowing.

But don't let that spoil the good news for you. Woo-hoo on another chip out of USA-PATRIOT's armour.

Phaedrus
 

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Phaedrus, you made it. I was a bit worried about you not posting at the new Rx. (for no real reason). Just dumb on my part I guess. Anyway - glad to see you here.


Take care, wil.
 

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Awwww, thanks. I've just been working an unbelievable load lately; no time for much of anything else.


Phaedrus
 

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the patriot act expires next year anyways. and now that congress members actually know WTF it is, it wont get renewed.

FWIW, current Pres. G.Bush would like to see it renewed. stating that "It's one of the greatest tools to fight terrorism." I dont know if he was joking or not but I thought that was funny I'm sure everyone else here did also.
 

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Its a beautiful thing for George and his team. They can say the Patriot Act works, it is a great tool for fighting terrorism. When you ask them to prove it they just say "trust us" because the Patriot Act after all is full of ways to do sneak surveillance with threats of jail time just for revealing someone is under investigation. So then you ask the FBI and they say "oh sure works great", but when pressed further they admit almost all their uses have been on cases completely devoid of a terrorist angle. Something only an Ass-croft could love.
 

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RobFunk

Don't be fooled: only certain provisions of USA-PATRIOT sunset at the end of '05, and most of them have either been backed up by additional legislation or attempts at such (DSEA, INDUCE, etc.)


Phaedrus
 

Is that a moonbat in my sites?
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People are pissing and moaning about the Patriot Act, but the fact is, with or without the Patriot Act, the government will steamroller anyone one it wants to. Waco and Ruby Ridge are two of the more recent assaults by the government that I can think of.

Forget the ideology ion power at the moment - the government will do what it damned well pleases, whenever it wnats to - Ruby Ridge and Waco both happened under a Democrat regime.

Just one more reason why all of us should want to leave the 2nd amendment alone. You can never tell when you might want to resist big brother.
 

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