An Amazing Turn of Events - AKphidelt is wrong!!

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Alright, as I always say... all I do is care about the truth. And today I learned that I have been telling some fraudulent lies just like Willie and Snoop.

Taxes can in fact be used to pay off the debt!!

Where I went wrong was forgetting that the Treasury can in fact create reserves in the system by creating deposits. So as long as the Fed has securities to back up the deposits in the system, then the Treasury can replace T-Deposits with Reserves. How can I miss that???

BUT, paying off the debt still decreases the net equity of the private sector and in fact makes everyone poorer. Let's dive in to the world of how I came to this conclusion. Now this might jiggle people's light bulbs. You notice that the country has to be in debt in order for money to be created?

Alright, let's take a hypothetical approach of what it would be like to start a fiat driven economy like America's system. Fiat money has to be "created" out of nothing. So pretend you and I were in the country and we had a hypothetical Government.

The Government wants to pay us to start building roads. Now we have to introduce fiat money in to the system.

So there are two ways a fiat money system can work. The Government can just credit our accounts and take seigniorage over the currency or, we can do it how we do it, in which the Government introduces the currency via debt.

So in our hypothetical country... the country wants to pay us $1000 a piece to build some roads. They issue $2000 in debt. But no one has $2000 to lend them.

Soooo... we go to Bank A, who says alright we will lend you $2000 in exchange for an account with the Treasury. So bank A's balance sheet looks like

A | L
Treasuries $2000 | TT&L Account $2000 (Money the treasury can spend)

So now there is no real money in the economy. Just paper being exchanged. So the chicken and the egg approach would need the Federal Reserve.

So now the Federal Reserve pays the bank $2000 for Bank A's Treasuries. This is how reserves are created. But you notice that the Federal Reserve didn't create any real $.

Bank A's new balance sheet
A | L
Reserves $2000 | TT&L Account $2000

Now the Federal Reserve has
A | L
Treasuries $2000 | Reserves $2000

Now the Government wants to give you and I $1000 a piece, so they spend the $2000 from the TT&L Account. Bank A now looks like

A | L
Reserves $2000 | Deposits $2000

Notice how we have $2000 and the Government is $2000 in debt. The country has to create the fiat money before anyone has the money in which to pay taxes or purchase debt from the secondary market.

Now the Fed's issue $1000 in currency so that the banks can lend us some money

Fed balance sheet
A | L
Treasuries $2000 | Reserves $1000 + Currency $1000

A year goes by and the Government issues out $5000 in debt and once again Bank A lends money to the Govt for them. Now what happens?

Bank A
A | L
Reserves $2000 | Deposits $2000
Treasuries $5000 | TT&L Account $5000

Now what does the Country's balance sheet look like?
United States of America
A | L
Negative Equity - $2000 | Treasuries $7000
TT&L Account - $5000

So now the Government pays us $5000 total.
Bank A
A | L
Reserves $2000 | Deposits $7000
Treasuries $5000

Once again, the Government is now $7000 in debt, yet we have $7000 in our accounts. Now say that you purchase the $5000 of Treasuries on the secondary market from Bank A. Watch the magic that happens
Bank A
A | L
Reserves $2000 | Deposits $2000

Now the private sector (aka you and I) have a balance sheet like this
A | L
Deposits $2000 | Equity $7000
Treasuries $5000

So now, the Government taxes $2000
Bank A
A | L
Reserves $0 | Deposits $0

Federal Reserve
A | L
Treasuries $2000 | TT&L Account $2000

Private Sector
A | L
Deposits $0 | Equity $5000
Treasuries $5000

Now, if the Treasury used their TT&L Account to pay off the $2000 of maturing debt... what would happen?
Bank A
A | L
Reserves $2000 | Deposits $2000

Private Sector
A | L
Deposits $2000 | Equity $5000
Treasuries $3000 |

Federal Reserve
A | L
Treasuries $2000 | Reserves $2000

Country
A | L
Neg Equity $5000 | Treasuries $5000

As you can see though, the destruction of debt, destroys the equity of the private sector. The creation of debt increases the equity.

So I was very wrong about the taxation issue, but I'm still correct about debt being the basis for money creation. The fact of the matter is, paying off the national debt would drain all money out of the economy.
 

powdered milkman
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two bottles of wine in me alphie......LOOKS GOOD!
 

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two bottles of wine in me alphie......LOOKS GOOD!

Lol! Thanks steak. Just went to the liquor store for some beer and vodka. It's going to be a long night. The rents and relatives are coming over for my nephews 2nd birthday!! I just got done making a Nemo cake!!

But yea, I think if people start applying logic to how a country would work to start off, it starts to make much more sense with what the national debt really is. Our county chose to introduce it's made up currency through debt (probably just a spin off from the gold standard). It all starts making sense when you think about it logically!
 

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Hundy proof?

Lol, of course! There is no other way to deal with my family. And the gf is out of town for a week, so I have free reign to just get obliterated! And I'm chugging now so I'm too drunk to give people rides home!!
 

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^ ^ ^ How are Nanooks?
 

bet365 player
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The kid is still struggling to grasp fiat money concept, off course the government has to print money out of thin air, I can't just get the money off the tree can I?

In day to day reality, on average, the government or Obama & turbo tax cheater Tim Geihtner spend as much as they receive. Government spending will replenish banking system reserves, its transferring from TT&L accounts to US Treasury account at the Fed will decrease banks reserves. In that sense, they want to pay bills as fast as they collect taxes & proceeds from bonds sales. Any short-term imbalances between inflows and outflows can be adjusted by selling new securities or redeeming old ones. Banks would be in trouble if the Treasury makes no adjustments for those imbalances.

That is a main purpose of the TT&L account, its goal is to maintain the reserves of the banking system at a constant level.

TT&L moved from DOS base to what it called TT&L Plus a few years ago. Any companies enroll in TT&L Plus program can access to real time update of TT&L and other US Treasury security products, it's very impressive.

Now to his point whether deficit spending is good or bad to the economy. As the economy grow it can sustain more debts, aka deficit add growth to the economy.

The problem is the US has a huge trading deficit. We rack up as much as nearly $1T in trading deficit annually. Our trading imbalance with China alone is $400 billion a year. Trade imbalance is sucking up every dollar we spend.

As you can see the net benefit of deficit spending is next to nothing.

Wonder why US GDP is stalling while China and other part of the world continues to grow?
 

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He calls me a fraudulent liar? Lol.

Why would I want to lie to a bunch faceless internet forumer?

And for the record, I'm not the one who tries to impress anyone here nor I'm beating my chest and screaming that I'm smarter & richer than anybody.

Also, I'm not the one who creates multiple nicknames to kiss my own ass.

The more he posts, the more bitterness he shows.

Best guess, he is a underachiever loser piece of shit who badly need this forum to satisfy his own gratification. It's pathetic.
 

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Oh Snoop A Loop... he tries so hard yet remains so dumb! Always good for a solid laugh though.

Can anyone tell me what our trade deficit has to do with this conversation?? Hahahaha
 

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It's a bitter sign of a sore loser.

Funny you keep calling me out just to get dick slap in the end.

Honestly speaking, I don't think there is ONE single person on this board would believe your "debt is no debt" bullshit. The only reason they're line up for you because they're influenced by the same liberal ideology, it's kinda like "my kid is never wrong" attitude.

The idea of printing our way out of the problem is insane.

Even Warren Buffett in late 09', in his co-ed for NY Times, warned about the potential collapse of the dollar if we think fiat printing will solve all the problems.

Quote: “Unchecked greenback emissions will certainly cause the purchasing power of currency to melt. The dollar’s destiny lies with Congress". Warren Buffett.
 

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Wow Snoop. Really?? You wrote that all by yourself?

Unfortunately it is drivel that has no relevance to my point. Care to try again? Maybe actually stay on topic. I don't know what they teach you Chinese boys in China, but here in America they teach us how to debate with intelligence.
 

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It's crystal clear to everyone that you're not a very bright kid.

Hell my dog is smarter than you so is my sperm.

Live with it kid.
 

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Oh snoop deezy. What ever keeps you going. Only the truly ignorant can consider themselves smarter than someone else with out even explaining why!

This post was about how Government debt creates assets for the private sector... and you talked about trade deficits, gdp, and some out of context quote from Warren Buffet. That my friend, is the sign of an idiot!
 

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It's true that government debt creates asset for private sector - but the private sector here is China.

So you only got half of it correct.

I give you a C.
 

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It's true that government debt creates asset for private sector - but the private sector here is China.

So you only got half of it correct.

I give you a C.

Wow, you see this folks???? There is hope after all. Oh my gosh! Did Snoop just admit Government Debt creates assets for the private sector???

Thank you Lord... my work here has meaning!!!!

You just made my day Snoop!!
 

Life's a bitch, then you die!
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Wow, you see this folks???? There is hope after all. Oh my gosh! Did Snoop just admit Government Debt creates assets for the private sector???

Thank you Lord... my work here is meaningless!!!!

You just made my day Snoop!!

There you go!
 

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