About 2000 Election in Florida for fatfrank....

Search

New member
Joined
Sep 21, 2004
Messages
1,724
Tokens
I spent a little time on you franky, just cuz I know it warms your hard little heart.
I imagine you'll still deny there was anything irregular about the election in Florida though.


FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE FRIDAY, JUNE 28, 2002 WWW.USDOJ.GOV AG (202) 514-2007 TDD (202) 514-1888
JUSTICE DEPARTMENT ANNOUNCES RESOLUTIONS
IN TWO FLORIDA VOTING MATTERS
WASHINGTON, D.C.- The Justice Department today announced that it had filed Complaints and agreed-to consent decrees with two Florida counties concerning violations of the Voting Rights Act of 1965 that occurred during the 2000 election.
The Department reached settlements with Orange and Osceola Counties that address those counties' failures to provide Spanish language assistance to voters who require it, as required under the Voting Rights Act. In addition, the agreements address the failure by both counties to ensure that qualifying Spanish-speaking voters could be assisted by persons of their choice. The decrees have been submitted for approval by the federal district court in Orlando.
"It is vitally important that all Americans enjoy the rights they are guaranteed under the Voting Rights Act," said Assistant Attorney General for Civil Rights Ralph F. Boyd, Jr. "Federal law entitles certain persons to assistance, while voting, from the person of their choice, and to language assistance. Where that assistance is denied we will do what is necessary to ensure that the law is followed."
Specifically, the Complaint against Orange County alleges violations of Section 203 of the Act, which requires the county to provide materials and information relating to the electoral process in Spanish, and Section 208, which mandates that voters who are blind, disabled, or those who cannot read or write be permitted assistance at the polls by the person of their choice. The Complaint includes allegations that the county had not translated all of its election documents and information into Spanish, failed to assign a sufficient number of bilingual poll officials to polling sites with significant numbers of Spanish-speaking voters, and denied some voters assistance from persons of their own choosing.
In addition to enjoining further violations of Section 203 and 208, the consent decree requires Orange County to, among other things: appoint Spanish Language Coordinators to ensure that Spanish-speaking citizens receive full and complete information in Spanish about all stages of the electoral process; investigate and remove poll workers who have engaged in inappropriate treatment of Spanish-speaking and/or Hispanic voters; provide sufficient numbers of poll officials who are bilingual in Spanish and English.
In its Complaint against Osceola County, the Justice Department alleged the county violated Section 2 of the Act by engaging in practices that prevented certain Hispanic citizens from having an equal opportunity to participate in the political process. Specifically, some poll officials were hostile toward Spanish-speaking voters and may have discouraged them from voting, and some Spanish-speaking Hispanic citizens may have been turned away from the polls because of the failure of poll officials to communicate effectively with them or provide Spanish-language assistance. The County also engaged in practices that prevented Spanish-speaking voters, with limited ability to understand English, from receiving assistance at the polls by a person of their choice.
In addition to enjoining the county from future violations of Sections 2 and 208, the consent decree requires Osceola County to, among other things: provide in Spanish and English certain election materials, such as notifications of elections and polling place changes, through Spanish Language Assistance Coordinators; investigate and remove poll workers who have engaged in inappropriate treatment of Spanish-speaking and/or Hispanic voters; and provide sufficient numbers of poll officials who are bilingual in Spanish and English.
Under both agreements, the counties must train poll officials regarding Voting Rights Act compliance. Both consent decrees also permit the Department of Justice to monitor elections to ensure compliance with the consent decrees.
"Officials in Orange and Osceola Counties were committed to reforming their local voting procedures to ensure that they comply with the Voting Rights Act," said Boyd. "We appreciate the cooperation and good faith demonstrated by the counties during our investigations of these matters, and their willingness to negotiate effective resolutions of the concerns raised in our Complaints. The goal of both sides was to ensure genuine reform before the next round of federal elections."




<http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/national/AP-Election-Lawsuit.html>
Quietly Florida Admits 2000 Election Fraud
By The Associated Press
April 26, 2002 | Filed at 10:17 p.m. ET
MIAMI (AP) -- A federal judge has approved a settlement between Leon County and civil rights groups that sued over widespread voting problems in the 2000 presidential election in Florida.
The state and six other counties remain in the case brought by the NAACP and four other groups who sued in a dispute that grew out of the long-uncertain results of Florida's vote for president.
"There was nothing they were seeking that was impossible to achieve," Ion Sancho, Leon County supervisor of elections, said Friday. "I've been a proponent of settlement from the moment the lawsuit was filed."
Thomasina Williams, one of the attorneys for voters, said settlement talks are under way with other counties, and she was optimistic that some will follow Leon's move. Trial is set for Aug. 26.
State lawmakers changed election laws in response to complaints after the 2000 election, but critics said the changes didn't go far enough.
In the biggest departure from current procedures, Leon agreed to give a written explanation to voters whose ballots are rejected. The idea to make that a state standard was discarded by the Legislature.
The groups that sued agreed that the settlement "achieves some if not all of the relief" they could have obtained at trial, according to the court order dropping Leon from the lawsuit last week.
The county agreed to address disputes over voting, voter registration and voting lists and will meet with community groups to boost registration, with special efforts targeting minorities and college students. Sancho said he was doing all of that before.
Many voters said their votes didn't count or they were turned away from polls due to mistakes on voter lists, busy telephone lines at election headquarters, punch-card voting machine foul-ups and other problems.
Statewide, the largest numbers of voting problems were found in precincts with high proportions of black and elderly voters.
Under the settlement, both sides will work to restore voters who were wrongly removed from voters lists in the 2000 election. Many law-abiding voters across the state said their names were dropped because they were mistakenly pegged as ex-cons, who generally aren't allowed to vote in Florida.
The county also agreed to improve communication and training for staffers who work on election day.
Leon County includes the state capital of Tallahassee.



Race and Election Irregularities on November 7 2000
Anita Hodgkiss
excerpted Wrom: BGDADRZFSQHYUCDDJBLVLMHAALPTCXL African American Vote: Election Irregularities on November 7, 2000 , 15 FEB 15-FEB NBA National Bar Association Magazine 18- (January/February, 2001)
Civil rights organizations have received complaints of widespread denial of the right to vote, affecting minority voters and predominantly-minority precincts, in Florida and elsewhere in the country. Some of these complaints were presented at NAACP field hearings November 11 in Miami, at which National Bar Association member Thomasina H. Williams, Esq. of Williams & Associates, P.A., testified. These hearings were the first step in an effort to make a public record of the reports of voting irregularities experienced by African Americans and other citizens who attempted to vote, and to ascertain the extent of their disenfranchisement.
The information gathered by civil rights organizations, including the NAACP, details allegations of several forms of outright denial of the right to vote, as well as intimidation and barriers that prevented or discouraged voting. Complaints include the following types of disenfranchisement: alleging serious violations of the United States Constitution, the federal Voting Rights Act and the National Voter Registration Act, as well as Florida election law and Florida civil rights statutes.
VOTERS TURNED AWAY AT THE POLLS
Minority voters who have been registered for many years and who have voted in the past, were told when they appeared at their polling places that their name was not on the precinct list. Some minority voters said they were turned away because they did not have photo identification, even though Florida law provides that registered voters without photo IDs may cast "affidavit ballots".
Reports indicate that in some counties, minority voters were asked for a photo ID while white voters were not.
Some minority voters claimed that they were not allowed to vote even though they arrived at the polling place with both their voter card and a photo ID.
Voters who did not appear on the voting list or have a photo ID reported that they were shunted into a "problem" line, where they waited for long periods of time after being told that election officials were trying to telephone headquarters. However, because phone lines were jammed and many of these calls never went through, some voters were left waiting for hours and still did not get to vote, other voters became discouraged and left without voting.
Some voters told of being sent from polling place to polling place, with no real effort to determine where they actually would be permitted to vote. Some claimed to have been turned away from not just one, but three or four polling places.
Registered voters reported being denied the right to vote because of minor, immaterial discrepancies in their names as they appeared on registration lists and in their proof of identification--such as their use of middle initials. Voters who were turned away said that they were not offered affidavits or challenge ballots.
Large numbers of minority voters who registered before the October 10, 2000 deadline under Florida law did not receive their voting cards before November 7. When they appeared at the polls, they were told they were not on the voting list and were not permitted to vote.
POLLING PLACES MOVED WITHOUT NOTICE
Witnesses also reported that one, and possibly more, polling places were moved without notice to the voters and without the placement of a sign at the site, as required by Florida law. As a result, the minority voters served by this polling place either had to overcome the barrier of locating their new polling place on their own (telephone calls to election officials were either not answered or not helpful) or were denied the right to vote because they could not locate their polling place.
INTIMIDATION, THREATS AND HARASSMENT OF AFRICAN AMERICAN VOTERS
Witnesses reported police checkpoints or police stops of voters in the vicinity of several polling places in African American neighborhoods.
ABSENTEE BALLOT IRREGULARITIES
Voters who requested absentee ballots alleged that they did not receive them and that they then were not allowed to vote when they went to the precinct in person on election day.
FAILURE TO PROVIDE OR ALLOW ASSISTANCE
Many Haitian American voters requested the assistance of a volunteer Creole/English speaker, who was willing to translate the ballot for those with limited English proficiency, but were denied such assistance. As a result, many Haitian American voters may have been denied the right to vote.
DEMOCRACY DENIED: THE TRUE EQUAL PROTECTION VIOLATION
When taken together, the allegations of exclusion and intimidation that civil rights investigations have uncovered so far show a pattern of disenfranchisement of large numbers of minority voters in several counties in Florida. The equal protection rights of African American, Haitian American and Hispanic voters who tried to vote, and who made heroic efforts to overcome barriers to their legitimate political participation, were denied in this election.
THE NATIONAL BAR ASSOCIATION RESPONSE
Mindful of these problems, the National Bar Association responded promptly, forming an Election/Voting Rights Task Force co-chaired by David Honig and Thomasina Williams. The task force prepared and filed an Amicus Curie brief in Bush v. Gore (U.S. Supreme Court, No. 00-949).
The NBA's brief did not urge a particular outcome. Instead, it attempted to place the issues in the case in their historical context. The brief expressed the NBA's view that the contentions of those favoring the termination of a count of legally cast votes are open to a skepticism informed by the history of African America's journey to the ballot box.
The NBA described how the nation has endured a history littered with abhorrent disenfranchising tricks and devices. Today's failure to tally and record legal ballots is the ill-begotten child of generations of disenfranchisement schemes, including literacy tests, poll taxes, white primaries, and an array of other voter disqualification devices that discouraged or prevented otherwise eligible Americans from casting their votes.
Declaring that these disenfranchisement techniques "cast a long shadow over this case," the NBA urged the Court to "hold to the most exacting burden of persuasion anyone who seeks to prevent the tallying and recording of legally cast votes."
Finally, the NBA observed that "[o]ur system has stumbled when an election case arrives in any court. Consequently, this Court would perform a valuable public service by drawing attention to the many non-controversial, nonpartisan, race-neutral standards and procedures available to a nation seeking to heal itself and make more perfect its union." The brief did not seek the Court's endorsement of particular reforms, but asked only that the Court commend several of them to legislatures, agencies and the bar for consideration.
The brief contained descriptions of a number of the potential election reforms, which have been developed by the NBA's Elections/Voting Rights Task Force.



Election Day Filled With Chaos
Even Former Attorney General Initially Turned Away At Polls
Posted: 8:01 a.m. EDT September 10, 2002
Updated: 12:12 a.m. EDT September 11, 2002
MIAMI-DADE COUNTY, Fla. -- The 2002 vote in South Florida got off to a rough start Tuesday morning and it forced the polls to be open two hours longer than planned.
After reports of widespread election problems across the state, Democratic gubernatorial primary candidate Janet Reno (pictured) said she planned to file a court injunction to extend voting hours to 9 p.m. in four Florida counties, including Miami-Dade and Broward. Mid-afternoon, Gov. Jeb Bush announced that he signed an executive order requiring that poll hours be extended to 9 p.m.
While polls were scheduled to be open at 7 a.m., not all places were ready. Even Reno was turned away when she tried to vote at St. Catherine Siena Church on 107th Avenue this morning. She was able to voter later.
"I think that it is important that the voters overcome mistakes made by others or failure to plan by others," the former U.S.attorney general said. "I think voters can get to the polls. And I know, judging by people, that they will try their level best at lunch hour (and) on their way home."
Reno said that she was concerned about the reports of delays, including one precinct in a predominantly black Miami neighborhood where voting didn't begin until 11:45 a.m., nearly five hours after polls opened.
Officials estimated about 500 people were unable to vote. In Miami-Dade County, 68 polling stations were still closed at 9 a.m., two hours after they were supposed to open, according to Mayor Alex Penelas.
Another candidate in the race for the Democratic gubernatorial nomination also ran into trouble when he tried to cast his ballot. Daryl Jones says at least five voting machines were not working where he voted in southwest Miami-Dade County. Jones says though he's discouraged by the problems, he believes voters will still be able to cast their ballots and make the right choice.
Election officials dispatched troubleshooting teams to try to deal with the problems.
"We've had a lot of reports from a lot of the precincts that they were not open on time as required by state law. Apparently a lot of the poll workers were not familiar with our procedures," said Gisela Salas of Miami-Dade County Elections. "They did not understand the procedures that they had been taught in training ... and had difficulty opening the machines."
Salas said that some workers asked voters to wait outside until all the machines were on, which goes against their policy. She also said that despite the months of preparation that went into this election, they are still dealing with the human element.
"There are a lot of poll workers that are elderly, and they're a little bit afraid of computers and they're looking at these (machines) as if they were computers. And a lot of them were hesitant to get the procedure started early in the morning and we had to walk them through it," Salas said.
Some voters were frustrated and others had to leave without casting their ballots.
"I have to come back after school and it's difficult when you have child and you're used to voting at a certain time. The polls are open at 7 a.m. I should be allowed to vote at 7 a.m.," said one voter left. "I'm a little upset ... if the machines take an hour to warm up, they should have started here at 6 a.m."
Broward County
In Broward County, which has more registered voters than the state's other 66 counties, there were problems at both the beginning and end of the day. Broward County Election Supervisor Miriam Oliphant says her department was aware of problems and that some election workers simply did not show up today.
Angry voters weren't hard to find as reporter Peter D'Oench discovered Tuesday morning. He ran into quite a few at the Carriage Hills Condominium voting precinct in Davie where people couldn't vote until 10 a.m., three hours late.
"I think it's unforgivable. I think its very poor management and it should have been taken care of a long time ago," said Frances Picard.
"I think possibly we need a new supervisor of elections. I think it's her responsibility to see that everything runs smoothly and she hasn't done that from day one. This election didn't just happen today," said one frustrated voter. "I think it's awful. They should have known. I don't mind the lines, but I don't understand why it took them two hours to get the machines here."
Poll workers at the Davie location said the delay could be blamed on the fact that they did not have special acitivator devices (pictured, right). Without the devices, they were unable to bring up ballots on the touch-screen systems.
In T.Y. Park in Hollywood (pictured, left above) voters who showed up were told that there were no voting machines on the premises.
"They brought them in around 9 a.m.," said voter Richard Crakow. "I think it's awful. They should have known. I don't mind the lines, I just don't understand why it took them two-and-a-half hours to get the machines here."
Later, even though the polls were ordered to remain open until 9 p.m., some Broward polling stations closed early because machines were turned off at 7 p.m., and then election officials couldn't get them back on again.
Elsewhere in Florida, paper ballots were caused problems in Orlando and the rest of Orange County where scanners couldn't read the votes.
More than half of Florida's voters voted on touchscreens purchased to replace punchcard ballots, which were the focus of the 2000 election recount. Prior to the primary, elections officials offered hundreds of demonstrations of the new equipment at shopping malls, civic associations, churches and other organizations.
 
>I imagine you'll still deny there was
>anything irregular about the election
>in Florida

I never said there werent irregularities in Fl... There were some in every state!

But when you wrote "I don't want to hear the every re-count found him a winner" I knew then you were irrational...
 

New member
Joined
Sep 21, 2004
Messages
1,724
Tokens
I said I didn't want to hear it because it was unrelated to the issue we were discussing.

We were talking about opinions not taken into to consideration, people not able for what ever reason to cast their ballot. How many times you count the votes that were received is a seperate issue. You can count those votes as many times as you want your still missing a part of the opinion representing the state. I'll try to explain in a way even you can understand. It's like saying all the people in this neighborhood want this candidate so we don't care what the people in that neighborhood think.
Count the votes a million times if you want, it's still doesn't represent the desires of all in the state that wanted to vote, it's still bogus.

BTW it's a good thing what you pointed out to Lander the other day that you're old. I assume that means you're not college bound. You can't seem to grasp that these are seperate issues, you'd never make it through a logic class. You're the kind of guy that someone says, "My favorite food is pizza, what's yours?", franky says, "Ummmm I like orange colored cats, they're pretty."
 
Joined
Sep 21, 2004
Messages
2,299
Tokens
I knew then you were irrational...

No one that advocates war has any room to call another person "irrational".
 
>it was unrelated to the issue we were discussing

What were we discussing?

You wrote, "Remember he's the President by Accident" and to back that up you wrote "can you say rigged election in Florida."

I asked you to prove those claims... You did NOT by citing voting irregularities. There were voting irregularities in all 50 states some WORSE than Fl.

When a person receives the most votes in EVERY COUNT and also in several re-counts then he is not winning by "Accident."
 
radio, stick to the subject... You dont find it irrational when discussing elections when someone writes, "I don't want to hear the every re-count found him a winner" ?
 
Joined
Sep 21, 2004
Messages
2,299
Tokens
The premise of that statement, I think, is that votes were missing/destroyed; there were greater discrepancies after the recount than during the initial vote.
 

New member
Joined
Sep 21, 2004
Messages
1,724
Tokens
Ok franky

I'm done trying to have any more rational debate with you. There's no point in carrying this out any further. You still don't get it and you have fully displayed that you have no capacity for logic.

For the last time, it doesn't matter how many times you count the votes if you don't have all of them.

It's a very simple concept, not everyone got to vote because of mistakes by the state government (even the Justice Dept. admits that the Voting Rights Act of 1965 was violated). Therefore we never saw a true representation of the state's will. That gives us victory by accident, or luck if you would perfer, not by fair election.
 

New member
Joined
Sep 21, 2004
Messages
345
Tokens
Kaya,

Just curious, if the entire state of Florida was not represented, how come Jeb Bush won on his re-election?
 
>if you don't have all of them.

No one state of the 50 counted *ALL* votes that were cast...

Your argument is specious.

>I'm done trying to have any more rational debate with you.

Good... You were like a one leg man in an ass whipping contest.
 
Joined
Sep 21, 2004
Messages
2,299
Tokens
good point here kaya.
If ballots are stolen/destroyed or have gone missing, there's really no point to having a recount, and a "re-vote" is in order.

Much of the disorganization and scandal in this came from the fact that many were too proud to call for such a re-vote. The fact that the US election system had come under scrutiny was a heavy blow.
 
>If ballots are stolen/destroyed or have
>gone missing, there's really no point to
>having a recount, and a "re-vote" is in
>order.

Then you must think every state should have a "re-vote" in every Fed. election - is that right?

WASHINGTON (CNN) -- Problems with ballots, equipment, voter registration and polling places are to blame for the 4 million to 6 million uncounted votes in the last presidential election... Although the study was born in the wake of the Florida recounts, it finds that the voting and vote-counting problems in Florida were not the worst in the country. Illinois, South Carolina, Idaho, Wyoming and Georgia all had higher rates of spoiled, unmarked or uncounted ballots in the 2000 presidential election. Some cities, including Chicago and New York, had rates of unmarked, uncounted and spoiled ballots well in excess of the state of Florida.

http://www.cnn.com/2001/ALLPOLITICS/07/16/voting.problems/
 
Joined
Sep 21, 2004
Messages
2,299
Tokens
Yes, there should be a re-vote in a state where numbers of ballots seem to disappear between the election and the recounts...
 
radio, what then when some/many re-vote VOTES are again uncounted due to human error - another re-re-vote?
 

New member
Joined
Sep 21, 2004
Messages
1,724
Tokens
Ok last one really I promise...

franky baby still missing the point...

Not spoiled votes, not unmarked votes, not uncounted votes....

People unable to vote. People's right to vote infringed upon, responsable party, officials of the Florida state government, Florida's governor is???
 
>Ok last one really I promise...

Like drugs... "This is my last hit"
icon_biggrin.gif
 
Joined
Sep 21, 2004
Messages
2,299
Tokens
The revealed serious problems with the electoral system in the United States yet nothing was done. There were court rulings, injunctions, legal banter and the like, yet something more needs to be done.
Are you saying that the system couldn't use an overhaul?
 
Hardly anything in life is perfect... But as can be seen a re-vote, a re-re-vote or a re-re-re-vote still would not be 100% accurate... Besides, there are constitutional restraints as to time.

But there is always room for change to the better.
 

Forum statistics

Threads
1,119,800
Messages
13,573,273
Members
100,871
Latest member
Legend813
The RX is the sports betting industry's leading information portal for bonuses, picks, and sportsbook reviews. Find the best deals offered by a sportsbook in your state and browse our free picks section.FacebookTwitterInstagramContact Usforum@therx.com