a question to the conservatives

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gopherbob

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does it bother you that the government keeps giving "no-bid" contracts to haliburton ?
 
levistep

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I'd like to know the full story before I decide. Apparently, they aren't allowed to make more than 7% profit. Nobody tells you that, but apparently that's how it works. I'd like to get an unbiased news source that gives the full story before I decide though.

I'm done with buzzwords like "sex scandal, mission accomplished, no-bid contracts, indictments." I wish there was a news website that posted 5-10 page news issues so you can get a better report than a 4 paragraph introduction.
 

docmercer

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Whew - good thing we're not paying for this...oh wait...we are.

$80,000 = 40 debit cards used by Katrina refugees in strip bars...but that of course is an outrage -- the stuff below is just "business"

WASHINGTON, June 14, 2004 (HalliburtonWatch.org) -- Five former Halliburton employees and one former executive of a Halliburton subcontractor describe egregious examples of abuse involving Halliburton’s Iraq contracts. In a letter written by Congressman Henry Waxman (D-CA), these whistleblowers describe instances where Halliburton employees would abandon or torch new trucks -- worth $80,000 -- if they acquired a flat tire or other minor mechanical problems. Halliburton would subsequently purchase new trucks with U.S. taxpayer dollars.
 
levistep

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Have any better sources than halliburtonwatch.org?
 
levistep

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Btw, you probably should be asking Republicans who voted for Bush instead of conservatives.
 
gopherbob

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levistep said:
I'd like to know the full story before I decide. Apparently, they aren't allowed to make more than 7% profit. Nobody tells you that, but apparently that's how it works. I'd like to get an unbiased news source that gives the full story before I decide though.

I'm done with buzzwords like "sex scandal, mission accomplished, no-bid contracts, indictments." I wish there was a news website that posted 5-10 page news issues so you can get a better report than a 4 paragraph introduction.

don't you think the relationship between them and cheney should make them ineligable for any government contract ?
 
cussin'it

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you have to change the channel off Faux and bookmark something other than limbaugh.com or nationalreview.com kid.

http://www.americanprogress.org/site/pp.asp?c=biJRJ8OVF&b=90121

http://www.publicintegrity.org/wow/report.aspx?aid=366

http://www.truthout.org/docs_04/103004Z.shtml



gr_DefenseContracts01.png
 
gopherbob

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levistep said:
Btw, you probably should be asking Republicans who voted for Bush instead of conservatives.

it was the conservatives i wanted an answer from, does it bother them that their tax dollars are "alledgedly" being wasted by haliburton.
 
cussin'it

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http://www.independent-media.tv/item.cfm?fmedia_id=10399&fcategory_desc=Under Reported

After millions of tax dollars were spent investigating how Halliburton ended up being awarded billions of dollar worth of no-bid contracts in Iraq, the Government Accounting Office determined that the company should never have been awarded the contracts in the first place. In response to those findings, Cheney and Bush both, as much as thumbed their noses at tax payers as if to say "so what, what are you going to do about it?" Well, it's beginning to look like they were right, there is nothing we can do about it.

According to the GAO's report, Rebuilding Iraq: Fiscal Year 2003 Contract Award Procedures and Management Challenges, contracts worth billions of dollars were awarded without full and open competition, including Halliburton's oil infrastructure contract.

The GAO found that the Bush Administration violated procurement law when it issued various task orders under existing contracts. Of the 11 task orders examined, more than half were awarded outside the scope of their contracts, according to the report.

As an example of the inept procurement process, the GAO told how "a military review board approved a six-month renewal contract with Halliburton worth $587 million in just ten minutes and based on only six pages of documentation," the report said.

Once and For All - How Did Halliburton Get Those Contracts?

Remember back when Cheney appeared on NBC's Meet the Press on Sept 14, 2003, and said, "And as vice president, I have absolutely no influence of, involvement of, knowledge of in any way, shape or form of contracts led by the Corps of Engineers or anybody else in the federal government."

And remember when he was asked whether he had known about Halliburton's noncompetitive contract, and he said, "I don't know any of the details of the contract because I deliberately stayed away from any information on that."

Those statements were proven false by a June, 2004, article in Time Magazine entitled, "The Paper Trail: Did Cheney Okay a Deal?" As it turns out, Bush and Cheney both were informed that Halliburton would get the contract before it was awarded. Time quoted an email sent by the Army Corps of Engineers, that said the contract for construction of oil pipelines was approved by Under Secretary of Defense Douglas Feith "contingent on informing WH tomorrow. We anticipate no issues since action has been coordinated w VP's [Vice President's] office."

This email totally contradicts Cheney's nationally televised assertion that he had no involvement in Halliburton's contracts whatsoever. It proved once and for all that Cheney and the White House had played a key role in making Cheney's ex-employer the number one war profiteer in Iraq.

The email was dated March 5, 2003, and Halliburton was awarded the contract three days later without any bids by other companies.

The administration tried to dismiss the email by saying the employee at the Corp was just trying to give the Vice President's office a heads-up on the process. Now I suppose opinions on what the email mean could differ. However, people's opinions on what it means are likely based on what their definition of co-or-di-na-ted IS.
 
edub69

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If you only read one of my posts, Read This One

I worked for a construction company that had a contract similar to Halliburton's in structure, on a much smaller scale. It was called a "Job Order Contract", or JOC. The 7% figure cited by Levistep is a red herring. That is simply the profit attached to the prices that are already ridiculously exaggerated. The contract is entered into as follows:

The "Owner", in this case the U.S. government, in my case the city of Chicago, issues a bill of materials that it knows will be used in a series of projects. Our projects were street and utilities improvements. The projects were small in nature and needed to be resolved quickly, so it was neither practical nor desirable to put each project out to bid individually (which by public contracting code any agency receiving tax money is usually required to do). Instead, the city came up with a bill of materials and quantities for a sample project and asked the contractors to insert unit prices for these items. There were only two firms that responded to the invitation to bid. I don't know what the other firms prices were, but the prices we used were almost double what we would use in a bid for an individual contract, and we still got the job. On top of that there was a line item at the bottom for our fee, which we bid at 5%. The contract was capped at $5 Million dollars, and any time a small job that fell under this contract's jurisdiction came out, we were dispatched to the site and did the work. The following scenario usually unfolded:
  1. We get a phone call from the contract adminstrator that some curbs, sidewalks, asphalt, and a utility line need to be replaced.
  2. We order the material (usually ordering twice as much as we need, and using the rest on other projects) and do the work without any city supervision.
  3. We show the city all the (inflated) purchase orders and we get paid based on the quantity of material that was installed. Not only were we getting double the price, but we were also billing for double the necessary material, in effect charging the city four times as much as the work should have cost, or if the city's crews did the work themselves. We were a union contractor so the wages paid would have been equal to the city's workers. In a war theater, the potential for abuse is much greater than what we were able to accomplish.
  4. We do the next job the same way, and the next, and the next, until we have done $5 Million worth of work and then the city has to bid out a new contract.
In Halliburton's case, I believe that there were supposed to be other bidders initially, but the other bidders mysteriously dropped out. This alone should have made the bid invalid, but due to the fact that bombs were about to be dropped, there was no choice but to award the job to, surprisingly enough, Halliburton. The initial contract was capped at $7 Billion dollars, I believe.

The process of pricing is the same - provide fixed prices for every item that the army could come up with, and then get paid based on the amount of material that you supply. Halliburton, knowing it was the only bidder, would have quoted the outrageous prices that have been described, and then the 7% figure would be the fee that they charge to supply a $45 case of Coca-Cola or an $80,000 truck. And in a war zone, who is going to keep an accurate count of what becomes of the materials once they are delivered and deployed?

Anyone who doesn't think that Halliburton is stealing from me, you, and all Americans should receive a lobotomy immediately.

Whether Dick Cheney had a hand in it is almost immaterial. However, it certainly meets with at least his tacit approval, considering that he is the Vice President and if he wanted to investigate Halliburton's raping of America he could do so. But this administration has such zeal to "Privatize" everything in its path, that it has privatized part of the military, and this privatization is costing Americans billions more than it would cost the army to perform the same services.

This is what the Bush Administration is saying by issuing a contract in this manner: :hump: America.

:drink:
 
BASEHEAD

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The fact that there is little to no oversight bothers me but the fact the company best equipped to do this work is receiving the most contracts doesnt.The fact is Halliburton has been doing this kind or infrastructure rebuilding for DECADES for the government.I agree entirely that financial hijinx are taking place....but doesnt that happen in EVERY sector of the US economy?Are you trying to say companies run by registered Democrats are free from scandals?When Clinton was in office,do you think this kind of stuff didnt go on?Soldiers say the guys on the ground for these companies work is second to none and without them it would be unbearable.Can we keep the criticisms on the suits? That would be nice.
 
Jointpleasure

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gopherbob said:
it was the conservatives i wanted an answer from, does it bother them that their tax dollars are "alledgedly" being wasted by haliburton.


Here's a conservative answer with a twist:

I believe God would rather see his people ( the republicans ) with the money than satan's people ( the demis ). Halliburton does good work, to boot.
 
edub69

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BASEHEAD said:
The fact that there is little to no oversight bothers me but the fact the company best equipped to do this work is receiving the most contracts doesnt.The fact is Halliburton has been doing this kind or infrastructure rebuilding for DECADES for the government.I agree entirely that financial hijinx are taking place....but doesnt that happen in EVERY sector of the US economy?Are you trying to say companies run by registered Democrats are free from scandals?When Clinton was in office,do you think this kind of stuff didnt go on?Soldiers say the guys on the ground for these companies work is second to none and without them it would be unbearable.Can we keep the criticisms on the suits? That would be nice.

You are mostly correct. However this venture is so far beyond the scope of what they have done before that they are practically a branch of the military. The hijinx that are going on here are way beyond what happens in other sectors of the economy. If they were held to the same standards as the men who they are providing service to they would have been court martialed a long time ago. Also, the fact that they were handed the contract contrary to public contracting code should bother you but apparently it does not.
 
edub69

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Jointpleasure said:
Here's a conservative answer with a twist:

I believe God would rather see his people ( the republicans ) with the money than satan's people ( the demis ). Halliburton does good work, to boot.

Wow, each of your posts is dumber than the last...
 
Jointpleasure

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edub,

I would never, ever,ever expect a lib to understand wisdom.
 
TheRightWing

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geez Edub thanks for setting me up!!! I could care less just as long as you do the job right and no screwing the public or you'll never get another!! Think Halliburton is a fine comapny but I think they screwed us a few times but so would the others I'm sure.
 
edub69

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Jointpleasure said:
edub,

I would never, ever,ever expect a lib to understand wisdom.

Ah yes, wisdom...wake us up when you find some:drink:
 
Jointpleasure

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edub69 said:
Ah yes, wisdom...wake us up when you find some:drink:


Then do what? teach you?

SORRY

A wise old man once said "ignorance is curable with knowledge, stupid is forever."
 
edub69

edub69

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Jointpleasure said:
Then do what? teach you?

SORRY

A wise old man once said "ignorance is curable with knowledge, stupid is forever."

Well then, you better get that dunce cap fitted perfectly cause you'll be wearing it in the afterlife too.
 

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